3E question before purchase

Posted by Tom on March 16, 2012, 11:14 pm
108.85.125.63

I went to look at a 3E today that I'm considering buying that will be my first LC. It is a 1910 year 12 ga model with steel 26" steel barrels no rust or pits and shinny bores and really nice wood, all numbers match and Hunter one trigger. I went down my list of things to check and came up with a couple questionable areas. The first one is on the upper tang above the safety there is what I'm not sure is a crack in the tang metal or was it made that way. The crack is all the way across the tang and perfectly straight which makes me think it was made that way. I got online looking at smiths and thought i saw on one with a crack in the same place. So, were some made in two pieces like that? That does not bother me as too much as it is solid and not an extremely expensive repair. My second question is, when i took the barrels off to give them the ring test, they had a flat thud like sound. There are do dents or bulges in the barrels, but on the bottom side rib, i think it is separted from the barrel. It was hard to see if it was so i took a thin sheet of paper and was able to slide it up between the rib and tubes in two or three places. I was able to slide the paper in about a quarter inch. The top rib is tight and i could not slide the paper in anywhere. Doesn't this confirm my thinking? If the top rib is fine will that be ok to shoot ? Is this the weld deterioration i have read about from being reblued the wrong way? I assume it had been reblued some time back,because it looks too good to be original. Now the question I'm afraid to ask, about how much is a barrel redo? I can get the gun for a really good price, i just want to know how much i would be looking at for repairs before hand.

Re: 3E question before purchase

Posted by Dennis on March 17, 2012, 12:12 am, in reply to "3E question before purchase"
184.189.224.110

Tom, I am new to L. C. Smith shotguns but I am going to take a stab at your questions. I have a number 2 grade 12 gauge and it also has the separation across the top tang. I don't know the answer as to why except for different manufacturing techniques from one style to another. Do not have it repaired. It isn't broken. As to your barrels you would have to contact a gunsmith for a quote but the bottom rib should definitely be repaired. I think that if it has separated in the area you mentioned it could be close to separating all along the bottom of the barrels as well. It is probably not just in that one small area. Possibly the separation is because of an incorrect bluing job or rust/corrosion has gotten under the rib. If the barrels appear to have original blue then it probably is not a bluing problem but is still a problem. I would contact someone such as Brad Bachelder (I believe in Michigan, Keith Kearcher (Bend, OR) or someone in your area who knows how to do quality repairs. Whether or not you buy the gun depends on how much of a bargain it is and the condition of the rest of the gun such as case colors, cracks in the stock, originality, matching serial numbers, barrels possibly cut etc. I hope this is of some help to you. Dennis

Re: 3E question before purchase

Posted by Tom Martin on March 17, 2012, 7:25 am, in reply to "Re: 3E question before purchase"
98.16.89.32

Early hammerless guns were made with a two piece top tang. I believe that it was because they used the same forging for both hammer and hammerless guns, so had to add an extension for the safety. I would be concerned about the barrel length. Hunter Arms would make barrels as short as 24" on request, but in the period of this gun, anything less than 28" was not common.

Re: 3E question before purchase

Posted by Bill Murphy on March 17, 2012, 8:14 pm, in reply to "Re: 3E question before purchase"
173.66.198.36

A careful measurement of bores and chokes is neccesary to determine the originality of 26" barrels. It is unlikely they are original unless you get a letter attesting to that. This is no gun for a beginner. End of story.

Re: 3E question before purchase

Posted by John L. on March 18, 2012, 6:23 am, in reply to "Re: 3E question before purchase"
70.174.30.133

Hello Tom, and welcome to the Forum. Unless you're specifically looking for a real "project gun", Mr. Murphy is probably right. If the rib were only loose for an inch or two back near the fore arm lug, that is a pretty easy fix, even for a do-it- your-selfer, but it sounds as though the entire rib should be re-laid, and there's likely enough corrosion to justify re-laying the top rib while you're at it. Then the barrels will need to be re-rust blued. If the barrels are as shiny as you indicate, there's a pretty good chance that they've been honed, which throws questionable barrel wall thickness into the equation. If the barrels are not original length, that hugely affects the value as well. If I were looking to get into my first LC Smith, I'd want one that I could get out and start shooting with, even if it were a field grade in good condition, vs a higher grade gun with many issues. Good luck, John

Re: 3E question before purchase

Posted by Tom on March 19, 2012, 11:13 am, in reply to "Re: 3E question before purchase"
159.142.219.244

I would like to thank everyone for all the knowledge you have shared. I don't think this gun is going anywhere soon, so I'm going to take my time and study the options and get a letter on the gun to confirm if it was a 26" barrell from the factory. If not then it is for sure a deal breaker, end of story. If it is original I will consider if the 600-800 cost for a complete barrell redo and bluing and a greatly reduced cost on the gun to cover it. I would rather stick with one of the higher grades in my search for my first LC as I have been down this road with other doubles and starting with a field grade, just wants me to get a higher grade with engraving and nicer wood. Thanks again and any additional comments are appreciated. Tom