Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 25, 2011, 11:58 pm
173.72.224.224

Here are some examples of just how big an EIGHT BORE L. C. Smith SXS is.

More Of Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 12:02 am, in reply to "Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
173.72.224.224

Even More Of Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 12:05 am, in reply to "More Of Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
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4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 8:47 am, in reply to "Even More Of Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
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Re: 4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Ken on August 26, 2011, 9:38 am, in reply to "4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
99.140.60.217

Jent, Very nice, is she yours? Ken

No, I do not own this 8 ga LCS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 11:44 am, in reply to "Re: 4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
173.72.224.224

Hello Ken, No, I do not own this 8 gauge L C Smith that was built in Fulton, NY. I am helping the estate of the owner learn all that they can about this big L C Smith. We have learned that this is one of only two grade 4 L C Smith 8 gauges built. We have learned that the two 8 gauge grade 4s were built at the same time with consecutive serial numbers. The name WALDO HACK is on the shield on this LCS. Waldo was one of three brothers and their Father was a rich and powerful man in Baltimore. Waldo would have been a teenager when this shotgun was built. Waldo later became an attorney. He lived from about 1881 to 1940. History Benjamin Franklin Newcomer (1827-1901) was born in Washington Co., Md. Elected president of the Safe Deposit and Trust Company of Baltimore in 1868, he also served at times as president of the Baltimore and Potomac Railroad Company, of the Union Railroad Company, and of the Maryland Institution for Instruction of the Blind. He married Amelia Ehlen (d. 1881) and their children included Nannie (1855-1901), Hattie N. (1861-1942), Waldo (1867-1934), and Mary L. (d. 1935). Their home in Baltimore was 1211 St. Paul Street. Mary L. Newcomer married James M. Maslin of the firm Henry, Maslin and Co. Nannie Newcomer married Frederick Home Hack (1846-1915), a member of the Baltimore bar. Hattie N. Newcomer married Henry Brooke Gilpin, a drug manufacturer. Waldo Newcomer was a financier who married Margaret Vanderpool of New York City. The children of Nannie and Frederick Home Hack included Waldo (1881-1940), Frank Newcomer, Frederick Home, Jr., and Amelia (Emily). In 1910, Amelia married Douglas Gordon Carroll, a prominent Baltimore stock broker, and their home was in Brooklandville, Md. This info is from--- http://www.mdhs.org/findingaid/trimble-collection-hack-maslin-family-pp48 Doctor Jim Stubbendieck , Tom Archer, David Williamson, C. Baumohl, JD Shank and others are doing all they can to help ID and verify this L C Smith 8 gauge. This gun looks to good to be true but I believe it is a true and original gun from Fulton. NY. Good Shooting To You All, Jent

Re: No, I do not own this 8 ga LCS

Posted by Tom Archer on August 26, 2011, 1:44 pm, in reply to "No, I do not own this 8 ga LCS"
97.81.72.82

In response to Jent's comments above, Jim S. noted that this gun, 42180, was finished in December of 1896 (no ship date); which I would think would be correct. But Jent's pictures show a gun without the bushed firing pin feature, which I thought was a common feature of all Smith guns produced up to about 1908/09 when Hunter discontinued that feature. That is the one aspect of this gun that I am unsure about; but perhaps another 8-bore owner can enlighten us? Also, back in 2003 when I was publishing regular DGJ articles on Syracuse Arms, I received a call from a dealer in Nebraska who had questions about a SAC gun he owned. During the conversation I asked if he had any high-grade or unusual Smith guns to which he said he didn't; but had a friend in North Plate who owned a Grade 4 8-bore. He gave me the guys contact info and I then called Jim with the details. Jim did contact the owner and has verified a serial number (42179), but as of the 2011 Southern, the owner had not allowed Jim to inspect the gun. At any rate, the records record only two No. 4 Smith eight gauge guns as being built; so assuming SN 42179 is indeed in North Platte, we now know both have survived. As any gun of Grade 4 quality was a special order; and as the two Grade 4's have consecutive serial numbers. Jent had wondered if both of these guns had been ordered as gifts to his sons? Wish the remaining records still contained those details.

Re: 4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Craig Larter on August 26, 2011, 2:12 pm, in reply to "4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
66.66.112.17

Jent: Thanks very much for the pictures, all I can say is WOW what a beautiful beast!!

5th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 3:09 pm, in reply to "Re: 4th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
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Top Rib Engraving and Markings

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 3:35 pm, in reply to "5th Group Of Pics Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
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Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Tom Archer on August 26, 2011, 4:31 pm, in reply to "Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
97.81.72.82

Jent The pics are very sharp, but that appears to be your standard Hunter Arms rib matting?

Bushed Firing Pins

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on August 26, 2011, 5:52 pm, in reply to "Re: No, I do not own this 8 ga LCS"
76.84.67.250

My No. 2 (probably made in 1895 or 1896) 8 gauge has bushed firing pins.

Just How BIG Is the muzzle of an L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 6:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
173.72.224.224

LEFT is a 12 ga RIGHT is the 8 ga

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 26, 2011, 6:47 pm, in reply to "Just How BIG Is the muzzle of an L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
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In the muzzle pictures the barrels on the LEFT are 12 gauge FOX Sterlingworth barrels. The muzzles on the RIGHT are the 8 gauge L C Smith barrels.

Re: Just How BIG Is the muzzle of an L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Stubtwist on August 26, 2011, 8:13 pm, in reply to "Just How BIG Is the muzzle of an L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
66.31.105.129

Jent, There is some serious meat on those thick barrels. How much does the gun weigh? Great pictures and thanks for sharing. Frank

Re: Bushed Firing Pins

Posted by bill on August 26, 2011, 8:38 pm, in reply to "Bushed Firing Pins"
65.0.16.218

I had a picture of a friends VHE 410 laying on his DH 8 bore, OO vs 6 frame what a contrast! I am sure the same photo using Smiths would show a massive contrast. bill

Bud and Cordette Smith

Posted by Researcher on August 26, 2011, 11:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Bushed Firing Pins"
67.170.28.167

It was done with a .410-bore and an 8-gauge L.C. Smith in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Eight, Issue 3, pages 108 to 110.

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by charlie on August 27, 2011, 7:35 am, in reply to "Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
66.211.119.171

fine looking goose gun...what are the chamber lenths of this lc monster.... barrels appear to be 32 inch... how much does she weigh and how is it choked....also is this 8 ga of the first grade 4 or is it of the later versions...could we see a picture of the engraving at the back of the locks...one nice gun.... charlie

Re: Bud and Cordette Smith

Posted by Tom Salzer on August 27, 2011, 9:44 am, in reply to "Bud and Cordette Smith"
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Of course, massive guns like Bud can be re-chambered for truly impressive cartridges.

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Jim Cantwell on August 27, 2011, 10:44 am, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
24.34.158.115

Charlie. See the first group of pix Brent posted. Note the circular with pin, barrel stop. That, I think makes it no newer than about 1900. I'm sure Brent will tack it down closer. It is sure one beautiful Elsie. Jim...

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Tom Archer on August 27, 2011, 11:07 am, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
97.81.72.82

"That, I think makes it no newer than about 1900". We don't have ship date; but the records record the gun as being finished in December, 1896.

Joint Check

Posted by David Williamson on August 27, 2011, 12:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
174.49.147.138

The first style joint check stopped sometime in the 1890's for hammer guns and I would presume for hammerless also. Too expensive to produce. Maybe Jim S. could give tell if his 8 ga. has the bushed firing pins.

More Pictures At PHOTOBUCKET Of This LCS

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on August 27, 2011, 1:40 pm, in reply to "Joint Check"
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You can go to PHOTOBUCKET to view more pictures of this L C Smith 8 gauge SXS. LOGIN IN AS "minescsm" and the GUEST password is "Vintager" with a capital "V". Good Shooting To You All, Jent http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h309/minescsm/

Re: Joint Check

Posted by Tom Archer on August 27, 2011, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Joint Check"
97.81.72.82

Yes, Jim's gun has bushed firing pins; that's the one feature about this gun that doesn't seem to fit, and which I don't understand about this piece; and which obviously raises a question.

Re: No, I do not own this 8 ga LCS

Posted by Jeff B. on August 27, 2011, 3:03 pm, in reply to "No, I do not own this 8 ga LCS"
72.35.161.157

Jent, That gun looks to be both original and in very high condition if the case colors are any indication. I would love to see what a gun like that would bring at a big auction in some state like say, Maine. Thanks for the photos and keep us posted. Jeff Brant

Re: Joint Check

Posted by Jeff B. on August 28, 2011, 7:44 am, in reply to "Re: Joint Check"
72.35.161.157

Tom brings up a real interesting point, are the later style non-bushed firing pins factory? It would be very unlickly the gun would have been sent back to Fulton to be modified without the bushings cause I think that would require a whole new receiver. The case colrs in the photos sure look like they're original 1890s CC. Could this gun have been given the later adopted firing pins in 1896 almost like a prototype? Jeff

More 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on September 6, 2011, 7:01 am, in reply to "Re: Joint Check"
173.72.224.224

You can check this website for pictures of more 8 gauge L C Smiths, see the LINK below. I am hoping to get pictures of the firing pins and bushings on these L C Smiths soon. http://www.10gauge.com/photos.html http://www.10gauge.com/home.html Good Shooting To You, Jent

Re: More 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns

Posted by charlie on September 6, 2011, 6:50 pm, in reply to "More 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
66.211.119.171

jent those are some nice guns and photos thanks for sharing them...i would love to own one of those lc smith 8 ga but there outa my reach as of now.... charlie

42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on September 9, 2011, 3:55 pm, in reply to "Re: More 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
173.72.224.224

Serial Numbers 42180 and 42179 together again---

Serial # 42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on September 9, 2011, 4:05 pm, in reply to "42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
173.72.224.224

More Of Serial # 42180 and #42179

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on September 9, 2011, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Serial # 42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
173.72.224.224

Re: 42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns

Posted by Dick Miller on September 9, 2011, 4:37 pm, in reply to "42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
96.228.91.168

Interesting---- consecutive S/N's---one with bushed firing pins and the other not !

Re: 42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns

Posted by Tom Archer on September 9, 2011, 5:51 pm, in reply to "Re: 42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
97.81.100.72

OK Jent, the last update I had on 42179 was that it was resting peacefully in North Plate, Nebraska; so I'm curious, what is the story behind these guns being reunited?

42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on September 9, 2011, 7:34 pm, in reply to "Re: 42180 and 42179 two 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotguns"
173.72.224.224

The current owner of L C Smith serial number 42179 brought it down to Virginia today to visit with it's sister, serial number 42180. A third collector of big bore side-by-sides came along to see #42180 and give us his opinion. After viewing 42180 for over an hour and photographing it with 42179 and four other 8 gauge L C Smiths we put the guns away and went to lunch. At our lunch we all agreed that 42180 is an original and unaltered L C Smith that has never been refinished. Number 42180 was by far and away in the best condition of the 6 L C Smith 8 gauge shotguns laying on the desk of our friend in Virginia today. There are many differences between 42180 and 42179, the SAFETY and NO SAFETY being a big difference. The engraving is very very different on the 2 guns. Notice that both 42180 and 42179 have the same type of butt. LCS #42179 has been refinished for sure but 42180 is still in better condition. The damascus barrels on 42180 are much better then the refinished barrels on 42179. 42179 needs to have Craig Smith rebrown her barrels so that it will be done correctly. From what I saw today I would have to say that 42179 and 42180 were NOT built as a PAIR. Good Shooting To You, Jent

Re: 42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today

Posted by Tom Archer on September 9, 2011, 8:16 pm, in reply to " 42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today"
97.81.100.72

"42179 and 42180 were NOT built as a PAIR" That was my assessment too; but is 42179 residing in VA now; and did it come in for a visit?

Another Picture Of 8 Gauges At Pintail Point

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on September 28, 2011, 10:22 am, in reply to "Re: 42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today"
173.72.224.224

Eight Gauges In The Rain At Pintail Point Bill pointed out that this may be a new record for gross weight on one gun show gun rack !!

Re: Another Picture Of 8 Gauges At Pintail Point

Posted by charlie on September 28, 2011, 10:35 am, in reply to "Another Picture Of 8 Gauges At Pintail Point"
66.211.114.250

if i had a wish that could come true...it would be that i would own a lc smith 8 ga

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by James Brown on October 1, 2011, 11:35 am, in reply to "Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
98.92.105.240

I saw on another web site that the grade 4 8 gauge auctioned this morning brought $40,000.00 plus tax. Didn't say who bought it. James

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Bill Murphy on October 1, 2011, 4:28 pm, in reply to "Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
96.241.171.92

Yup, I was there. It sure enough sold for forty extra large. I have to say, after fifty years of messing with double guns, this one is about the greatest American shotgun I have ever had in my hands. It looks like a bird gun on the table, and it handles like a bird gun in the hands.

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Craig Larter on October 1, 2011, 5:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
66.66.112.17

It's just nice to know that some great stuff is still out there! I really like the Elsie big bores, but a Grade 4 in high original condition in 8 gauge WOW! Bill if you sat it is one of your all time favorites it must be some piece.

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by Bill B on October 1, 2011, 6:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
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Bill, where was the auction?

Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS

Posted by jimmy b. on October 1, 2011, 6:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
174.252.160.83

I know who was the bridesmaid and pretty sure I know the bride !!!! : ( Be Safe, Jimmy

SOLD

Posted by David Williamson on October 1, 2011, 9:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Just How BIG Is An L C Smith 8 Gauge SXS"
24.97.106.58

I believe it was bought by the Big Bore Collector.

Re: SOLD

Posted by Jeff B. on October 2, 2011, 8:00 pm, in reply to "SOLD"
72.35.161.157

Mr. Big Bore must also have big pockets! I find it interesting that the extremes of guages/size brings out the deep pocketbooks. 410/28s and 8 ga sure raises the excitement level. I will say that $40K while a princely sum seems fair for such a high grade, rare gun. Would love to be able to compete for such a piece. Jeff Brant

Re: SOLD

Posted by Bill Murphy on October 2, 2011, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Re: SOLD"
96.241.171.92

The auction was in the Shenendoah region of Virginia, not where you would expect to find such a gun.

Re: 42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today

Posted by Watson on March 14, 2012, 11:55 pm, in reply to " 42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today"
173.16.38.203

We have an 8 gauge shotgun that has the word "Field" written on it. Can you give any info what kind of shotgun this might be

We Will Need A Lot More Information Than That To Help

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on March 15, 2012, 4:34 am, in reply to "Re: 42179 an 8 Gauge L C Smith Shotgun Visited Virginia Today"
173.72.209.160

We will need a lot more information than that to give you any help. Is the shotgun a L C Smith ??? Do you have any digital pictures posted on photobucket ??? Jent --- jentpmitchell@msn.com