Posted by David Lien on November 1, 2009, 3:57 pm
24.116.157.172

This Old 2 grade Smith #23222 followed me home from a funeral. All the metal is in very good condition,60% case colors over all. Barrels are chain damascus, and shiny on the inside no pits in the barrels, The barrels have no name on them. The stock is a Wart,(broken toe and cracked behind the side plates. MY question to this board is??? is this a Syracuse gun or a transition gun or a Fulton gun??

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Posted by seadog on November 1, 2009, 4:40 pm, in reply to "L C Smith # 23222"
68.8.81.164

I have a #2 serial #22643 and is a transition gun.

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Posted by David W on November 1, 2009, 7:54 pm, in reply to "Re: L C Smith # 23222"
174.57.97.95

A few points to look for to tell the difference. Do the side plates almost touch the breech balls? Does the bottom of the receiver have the convex lumps? Quality 2 guns have the type of engraving as the early Grade 1's, scroll like. The Syracuse Quality 2's had finer checkering, usually 24 lpi, compared to Fulton's 18 lpi. Barrels would be 30" or 32" Good Damascus. Fore end is capped with a piece of ebony and is lip shaped on the end. All had joint checks. To me transition guns would be the very early Fulton guns from the 1890's, when they were still called Quality, this changed around 1896. These guns would have Chain Damascus barrels, dogs head escutcheon in fore end wood, convex lumps but not as bold as Syracuse guns. This is a Syracuse 12 ga Quality 2 circa 1887, serial # 20149 It has been talked about on here of guns having the Syracuse attributes, with Hunter Arms written on barrels and these Syracuse guns would most likely have been sent back to Fulton and re-fitted with barrels. The serial number given, 23222, would seem to be a Syracuse gun, a late one, but compare the differences to determine which one it is. Serial #22643 is a Quality 2.

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Posted by David Lien on November 1, 2009, 11:59 pm, in reply to "L C Smith # 23222"
24.116.157.172

David Gun is a 12 ga. weighs 7 Lbs. 12 oz. Has 1 1/8 In. distance between the firing pins. Breach balls are 2.285 In. wide. Forend has a black tip, and a metal diamond in the center. Checkering looks to be 24 LPI. Bores are .630 with .026 choke in each barrel. Gun shoots where it looks, and paterns even and tight. The last caretaker had this gun in my airboat 40 yrs ago. He shot ducks well with it. the stock was all taped up with the safty pulled to the rear, and unoperable. He also hunted Pheasants with it once in a while. My son will post some pics. of the gun. Thanks for your reply. David

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Posted by Patrick Lien on November 2, 2009, 11:57 am, in reply to "Re: L C Smith # 23222"
24.117.126.118

Here are some pictures of gun 23222. Pat

Posted by Patrick Lien on November 2, 2009, 11:58 am, in reply to "Re: L C Smith # 23222"
24.117.126.118

More pictures of gun 23222 Patrick

Posted by David W on November 2, 2009, 3:01 pm, in reply to "Re: L C Smith # 23222"
174.57.97.95

David, your gun has the characteristics of a Syracuse Quality 2 gun, serial number, squared lug, joint check, and even the rounded side plate connecting screw. The thing that is different is the relationship of the side plates to the breech balls, these are of the Fulton era guns. Also the full capped pistol grip, this was available on Quality 3 and up. (but, never say never) The serial number puts it at the very end of the Syracuse era around 1888. Also the Chain Damascus in my opinion, was not available on Syracuse guns. I will have to carefully look at the pictures and enlarge them to see if I can see more. The Fulton era Quality 1 had more scroll engraving than the Syracuse Quality 2. Thanks for the pictures and information.

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Posted by dan B on November 4, 2009, 7:17 pm, in reply to "Re: L C Smith # 23222"
65.0.147.130

I bet many a duck fell in front of this gun. Not to hijack the thread, just saying.

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