[ Post a Response | 1250 Scale Message Board ]
Posted by Paul
on 10/11/2009, 10:34 am, in reply to "In reply to those nice . . ."
67.169.103.10
I don't wish to get into a debate about MM's business practices, but I do think that it is important to clarify the rules regarding copyrights. Perhaps Hal Reynolds believed what he said about modifications altering copyright, but if the original creator can show sufficient similarities he can prove the violation. But that's the key: proof. Proof means enforcement, and enforcement is time-consuming and expensive. Just ask the big companies battling against piracy of their products in China. The reality is that a copyright is worthless if you lack the financial ability to enforce it. And small producers of models hardly have the wherewithal to do that anywhere, let alone on another continent. In the case of Framburg there is no doubt that they abandoned their copyrights. When Superior got started they asked Framburg (which is still in business) if they would release the copyrights and Framburg told them that they didn't care who copied their work. Others, such as Delphin, Star, Ensign, Fleetline, etc. have either abandoned theirs, or have no ability or interest in protecting them. I do not believe that MM ever copied any Argonaut models; From what I can see of the list, they did copy models from many different producers including Wiking, Hansa, Triang, Mercator (which is owned by Skytrex) Delphin, Star, Comet, South Salem, Bessarabis, and others. However, there is a large number of models on their 1992 list, models of which have only been made by Navis, Trident or Superior. As MM did not produce their own originals, these presumably are copies of models which were under others' active copyrights.
--Previous Message--
: comments:
:
: MM always obscured the original logo on the
: bottom of models used as MM masters. There
: may have been exceptions, but I can't recall
: any. The owner of MM explained to me that
: if a model was sufficiently
: "modified" which I recall was
: explained as being at least 40% altered,
: then it met the copyright requirements as a
: new item. I have no idea just whose
: standards those might be and I have no idea
: if there are, or were, any industry
: "standards" by which to determine
: all this. That's how it was explained to me
: and I have no other information on that
: subject. Note that this does not mean that
: he regularly copied other manufacturers
: models,and I am referring only to those that
: were out of copyright or CONSIDERABLY
: MODIFIED. Again, I have no definitions of
: what anyone meant by the word
: "modified." There are models on
: the MM list that I have, but cannot identify
: the master. The original list of models for
: sale I received from Metal Miniatures was
: back in 1972 or 1973, probably the latter,
: and was accompanied by a separate flyer
: stating the models were Framburg models.
: When I met Hal, he explained that he had met
: one of the Chicago-area craftsmen who made
: the molds for Framburgs and he gave the man
: some of his Framburg castings.
:
: By the way, the only models I had from MM
: with an original logo were probably the MM
: version of Framburg, Comet or South Salem
: models. Dan Dorcy of Chicago had a large
: line of Framburg remakes and they all, of
: course, carried his logo. Most of them had
: some modifications made to suit him.
:
: So, to explain to DCM what I failed to
: mention earlier: If MM had copied an
: Argonaut model, then the logo would have
: been obscured and (sometimes) a MM number
: added (in addition to other changes).
:
: To be clear, I know of no Argonuat model
: that was ever copied or modified by MM. As
: far as I know (and I know a lot) I have
: never aquired any phoney-baloney Argonaut
: model and I always buy/trade with honest
: collectors. No doubt there are copiers out
: there who make direct copies of other
: people's models and leave the original logo
: on it, but I don't know of any. Such
: transactions would be very private--meaning
: clandestine and illegal.
:
: Without the years of experience of a few
: collectors (that number is growing) there is
: not much chance that a novice collector
: would notice anything "funny" or
: strangely familiar about a model with a
: well-known logo on its bottom.
:
: Back in the 1990s, in a militaria shop, I
: looked at three MM "cruisers"
: (actually Briitsh battleships--of course,
: made from Framburg model originals and
: perfectly legal). The militaria shop owner
: was asking about $35.00 each for them and
: didn't look too happy when I informed him
: what they were and were only worth about ten
: bucks each. To his credit, the shop owner
: didn't know warship types or manufacturers
: and couldn't place a fair value on them.
:
: So, when you buy a model from me or anyone
: else I have met on SN, then if it has an
: Argonaut logo, then you can be sure it is
: authentic. I have noticed that many posters
: to SN come on here asking for help in
: identifying models--and that is a good sign
: that our hobby is populated by some very
: astute collectors. It is up to us to
: maintain that credibility and honesty.
:
: And now, another cup of coffee!
:
: --Previous Message--
: Unfortunately, beginning back in the 1970s,
: just as the Xerox machine and the computer
: turned everybody into a publisher, rubber
: mold-making material made everybody into
: producers of 1:1200 ship models. This
: includes Metal Miniatures, Red Ensign, and a
: few others whose names I have forgotten.
:
: Metal Miniatures in the 1970s began
: producing their line of ship models. Even
: though the masters for the models came from
: Comet, Framburg, South Salem Studios,
: Wiking, Mercator, Trident, Star, Neptun,
: Navis and other producers, the entire line
: was, for a time advertised as
: "Framburg" models. I should know,
: because I provided Metal Miniatures with
: more than 20 to 30 plus out-of-production
: models with no copyright protection, to use
: as masters or prototypes for MM ships. This
: included Comet and Framburg models and some
: South Salem studios models, not some of the
: others listed above, most of which were
: still in production.
:
: This, of course, was false. Not
: deliberately so, but intended more as a
: tribute to a great line of ship i.d. models
: from WWII. After all, the owners of MM were
: model railroad experts, not ship
: enthusiasts.
:
: So, many new collectors who come across
: models claimed as Framburg under the trade
: name Metal Miniatures, have been mislead
: into believing that many non-Framburg models
: are, indeed, castings of real Framburg
: models. Of course, the collectors would
: know this only if they possessed a copy of
: the original MM list and actually owned or
: at least seen all of the models offered
: under the banner "Framburg"
: models.
:
: The Albatross model came from a Comet (near
: as in can tell) model. Framburg never made
: a model of the Albatross--and damn few other
: ships, as the 1:1200 line was limited to a
: little more than fifty individual ship
: models.
:
: Good luck, collectors. Do you really know
: who made your models?
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: This week’s conversion returns to youthful
: fancies and has more than a few things wrong
: with it. The main issue is synchronicity,
: as the late 1945 paint scheme would have
: been applied when Albatross was already
: stripped as a repair ship. She had also
: left Australian service to become a simple
: “HMS.” But so be it. With the “mea culpas”
: out of the way, she is a pretty good
: illustration of the way I was enhancing
: Framburgs and Superiors in the 1970s.
:
: The work employed all the usual techniques I
: was using in this period. File off all
: molded-in detail to obtain a flat deck
: surface and take it from there. The guns,
: as most of you will recognize, are Superior
: US 5”/38 open mounts, the boats and rafts
: are Schlingelhoff plastic castings, the mast
: is surplus from a Navis pre-dreadnought, and
: all of the bulwarks and tubs are fashioned
: from sheet copper bent to shape.
:
: I sold this model to Robert Liu in Monterey
: last spring and hope he is enjoying it as
: much as I am enjoying his little book.
:
: Best to all.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
Message Thread:
« Back to thread