Posted by Vengerin
on 6/14/2012, 12:58 am, in reply to "Re: Requiem script detail"
--Previous Message--
:
: >_ had been the final episode of Season 3 (as opposed to the
: series' finale,) that the cartoon would definitely have
: "jumped the shambling mound," so to speak. Under
: those circumstances, I would have hated to see what Season 4
: would have been like . . . .
:
: The main reason I like watching the show is Venger; who I think
: we can all agree is not your typical Saturday Morning cartoon
: villain. In my opinion, any attempt to replace him with any
: other "Big Bad" would have been as inadvisable as it
: would have been impossible. And any attempt to transform him
: into a "good guy," would have been far, far worse.
:
: Now, don't misunderstand; I have found the writing of Michael
: Reaves to be entertaining, thought-provoking, and satisfying
: ever since I first read "I, Alien," back in 1979. But
: "Requiem" would have been a big mistake. And, in my
: opinion, so would any attempt to "redeem" or
: "reform" Venger. Call me a cynic, but sadly, I think
: that a person can give themselves over to evil to such an extent
: that, in the end, there is nothing left of that person capable
: of being redeemed.
:
: I do have more to say on the topic of whether or not it is
: possible for someone as evil as Venger to be
: "redeemed." But for now, I need some time to collect
: and collate my thoughts before posting them haphazardly on this
: site. Fair warning: this could take some time. I tried for
: over an hour last night, and again just now for another hour.
: For now, please bear with me as I attempt to do this . . . .
:
: Absolutely, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter, so
: please take your time assembling them.
:
: Excellent point - is it possible for someone as "evil"
: as Venger to be redeemed? Okay, for starters, I thought he was
: one of the greatest Saturday Morning Big Bads ever! I wouldn't
: want so see him turn good and ruin everything the show had going
: for it, so please take the rest of my post as purely
: hypothetical. As great a villain as I think he is, I personally
: don't believe that Venger had truly achieved that level of
: complete and utter evil. We certainly saw the rather odd moments
: of compassion he displayed (as someone mentioned, when he saved
: his own, generally expendable, soldiers), and he demonstrated
: what appeared to be real affection towards his Nightmare. He had
: his own code of honor, warped as it may have been. Remember in
: "Valley of the Unicorns," when Presto accidentally
: transported himself into Venger's castle? Venger was going to
: blast the poor kid, but changed his mind, let him go, and even
: brought him back to his friends in exchange for the information
: Presto had. A really evil person would have taken the
: information and then blasted Presto anyway, just to be rid of
: one more enemy. And of course, there's the end of "Treasure
: of Tardos" when he let the kids go after they did him the
: good turn of destroying Demodragon. Significantly, Sheila then
: mused on whether Venger was really all bad - and somehow I think
: Dungeon Master agreed with her.
:
: Judging from that, there probably is some little flicker of good
: left somewhere deep down inside Venger, and it just might be
: enough for him to find redemption if he really, really wanted
: it. That, of course, is a really big "if," because
: there's obviously a LOT more bad than good there. Chances are he
: may not want to be redeemed - that's the real question. Either
: way, I just don't think opening a casket that had his "good
: side" locked away would have been the most convincing way
: to go about it.
:
: Kryschenn
:
:
:
I was the one the mentioned about Venger saving his orcs and stroking his nightmare. Also I said about his orc captain speaking to him in a really friendly manner (not to mention orcs didn't want to go with Kareena, giving the chance and they were loyal to Venger... and you don't get loyalty through fear (ask Skeletor about that, he could write an encyclopedia about that XD) and about him turning Kelek's wargs into puppies (he could turn them into stone, that's appropiated for a children's cartoon... I remember one of the fairies turned Maleficent's crow into stone and that's a Disney movie).
Also I could almost bet money in Venger knowing the kids used dragonbane to rip Demodragon out. I mean, he knew they were far out of the weapons, he knew he himself just gave them a useless talisman... He could add two plus two, also, he acted really fast when his orcs and Shadow Demon tried to capture the guys, sure he could has saw the scene or hear the conversation between the boys. I guess Venger thought in that moment: Very well, you cleaned up my mess, I'm not sure but... yeah, you can go.
When I was a child I thought DM was a creep, using children against Venger on purpose. I really thought Venger was easy on them because they were children and he didn't battle seriously children 
And well, besides that and redemptions and whatever... Venger isn't the typical villain so a typical thing like a redemption maybe isn't appropiate for him. I don't think he thinks in himself like someone per sé evil, so how could be redeemed if he didn't think he was acting bad?
I mean, Skeletor, for example, is always bragging about how evil he is. Mumm-Ra... Well... Ancient Spirits of Evil... man, you have there a hunch and also he was really into the bragging stuff too.
Venger isn't like that, he showed compassion, he showed honor and he loves his nightmare and appreaciate his soldiers... I noted that, is the kind of thing that I note really easy, the little refinements of things. It's like with Presto like Kryschenn mentioned: He helped him. Not blast him, it's a children's cartoon but... kicking him in a cell, perfectly fine. Or even letting him back in his castle but he teleported him to his friends and saved their bacon. Sure, later he wanted the unicorns' horns but the guy has an agenda, you can't blame him XD
So... I don't think that Venger could be redeemed, just for the fact that he isn't that kind of absolute evil. In fact in terms of D&D I saw him pretty much like a Lawful Evil character... Even Chaotic Good... exagerating a lot XD All depends in how evil DM ended up being (sorry, I can't eat DM being a good guy... I'm a DM in the tabletop game and I'm not a good gal at all, and I'm not a character, just a narrator!! XD)
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