Re: I Never Said It Would Be GOOD...
Posted by Model Builder on 8/6/2011, 2:34 pm, in reply to "Re: I Never Said It Would Be GOOD..."
: You know, Krys, here is another thought about Zakiyah's picture
: (and this is a shout out to Rana Kane as well.) When comparing
: Venger to Voldemort, what Caitlin Grayson did would only have
: been possible against Venger. But not because he is in any way
: "weaker" than Voldie.
: When Rana was assisting me with "Portkey to the
: Realm," we discussed the differences between the two dark
: wizards at some length. The main difference, we decided, was
: that Venger has a Code of Honor, whereas Voldemort does not.
: And because Venger was honor bound by his word to not harm
: Caitlin, he would not harm her while she was his hostage. Of
: course, Voldie would have killed poor Caitlin outright for
: simply being a muggle (but right after killing Presto for being
: a "mudblood.")
: Okay, if anyone here has not read either the Harry Potter books,
: or either of my D&DC fanfics "In the Hands of a Child"
: or "Dastirum," then I feel like I should put this
: disclaimer here:
: * * * * SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT! * * * *
: There, I've done my duty.
: Yes, I agree that Venger definitely had a code of honor that
: Voldemort did not have. Voldemort always seemed to hold even his
: own Death Eaters in extreme contempt, no matter how loyal they
: seemed, and he was perfectly fine with throwing them to the
: wolves (with the possible exception of Bellatrix). He'd break
: any law, tell any lie, and not even think twice about it. He was
: above such silly little things as morals and ethics.
: Venger, on the other hand, when he gave his word, he was good
: for it, though he was certainly a master of equivocation and had
: some sublime ways of saying one thing while implying something
: else entirely. I did have some fun exploring that particular
: code of honor in the scene you're describing in ITHOAC. I
: imagine that when Caitlin was throwing that tantrum and yelling
: and screaming and kicking him in the shins, he was pretty
: frustrated with himself for promising that she'd be returned
: unharmed, when all he really wanted to do was just smack her
: once to get her to shut up. The thing is, at that time, there
: would have been no witnesses. No orcs, not even Shadow Demon. He
: probably could have given her one solid slap that she would have
: recovered from long before she was supposed to be exchanged for
: the Gem, and no one would have been the wiser. But VENGER would
: have known that he hadn't kept his word, and that was
: Funny how he's fine with the thought of beating a six-year-old
: child, but his conscience, such that it is, won't let him get
: away with breaking a promise.
: One of the other major differences that I see between Venger and
: Voldemort is Voldie has a complete superiority complex that
: spills into the territory of utter arrogance. Harry Potter, to
: him, is just some second-rate nobody, whose only
: "gift" was not even innate - it was the protection
: afforded by the fact that his mother sacrificed herself to save
: him. To his detriment, he completely discounts Harry's and
: everyone else's powers, abilities, and intelligence because
: *obviously* they are far inferior to his own. How quickly he
: forgot or rationalized away how Harry beat him in an attempt to
: find the Philosopher's Stone, or destroyed the basilisk and the
: shade of Tom Riddle in the Chamber of Secrets, or beat him in a
: duel of wands ... well, you get the idea. Despite all evidence
: to the contraty, Voldemort was incapable of seeing anyone, Harry
: included, as a worthy opponent, and that arrogance cost him
: dearly in the end.
: Venger, on the other hand ... yes, he's got a superiority
: complex. But Venger also knows his enemies, and can admit when
: they are smart and clever enough to earn his respect. Sure,
: there were a few times when he just outright attacked them, but
: I'm pretty sure that some part of him knew that wouldn't work. I
: think that's why such a powerful being as he was often forced to
: resort to more subtle ways of getting at them: separate them,
: turn them against one another, turn other people against them,
: infiltrate their group and try to earn their trust, attempt to
: completely obliterate history so they're never born, etc.
: More importantly, Venger was able to recognize his enemies'
: strengths well enough to use their abilities for his own aims -
: The Treasure of Tardos is an excellent example of this, and so
: is the ending of Dungeon at the Heart of Dawn, though he often
: piggy-backs his own aims on the kids' efforts. For example, he's
: smart enough to listen to Presto rather than incinerate him on
: the spot, thus learning about Kelek and the unicorn horns. This
: unusual willingness keep his enemies alive so he could exploit
: their abilities is what I tried to explore in both my fanfics.
: In ITHOAC, Venger *could* have just attacked and destroyed all
: of them in those brief few minutes after he'd lured them back to
: the Realm but before their Weapons were returned to them, then
: just sifted through the ashes until he found the Gem of Shahvin.
: The problem was, he didn't know exactly where to take the Gem
: once he had it. Oh, he probably could have figured it out, but
: why go to that effort when he knew exactly what to to do
: manipulate the gang into doing the work for him? Or in
: "Dastirum" when he realizes the kids are about to
: confront the Duke of Darkness. He is rather pleased with this
: turn of events because he knows he's barely going to have to
: lift a finger to see this long-standing thorn in his side
: eliminated. He even anonymously pitches in and nudges
: circumstances into a design that helps his enemies because at
: that moment, the smug satisfaction of seeing the Duke defeated
: is more important to him than capturing the gang's Weapons.
: So I guess what I'm saying is that as evil as he is, Voldemort
: is pretty much a one-trick pony, basically a two-dimensional bad
: guy who is evil just for the sake of being evil. Venger, on the
: other hand, has a rich depth of character that we just don't see
: in Voldemort.
: By the way, Model Builder - I don't think I ever said anything
: to thank you when you left your review for me on ITHOAC. I
: really did take it to heart. Since this was a topic you were
: personally very close to, I took your advice and went back to
: make a few revisions in the first couple of chapters. Nothing
: that changed the basic thrust of the story, but I tried to
: emphasize that reality is a little harsher than I made it. I
: hope it comes across a little more plausibly now.
Well, Kryschenn, let me start by saying that, "You're welcome." I really liked the way you wrote ITHOAC, especially since it was the first "D&D-C" story that I had seen since the series ended.
"Funny how (Venger is) fine with the thought of beating a six-year-old child, but his conscience, such that it is, won't let him get away with breaking a promise."
Actually, I thought that that was a very nice touch in your story. As a medieval warlord, Venger would have no qualms about harming a small child (Caitlin Grayson would not be the first.) But Venger's word was his bond . . . .
Regarding your planned story updates, I think a plausible scenario would be to have Hank, Sheila, and Caitlin living in an apartment complex that is owned by Eric's family. Hank could be employed there as the on-site property manager/handyman, and Sheila could be working at the newspaper. Moreover, if this job provides free rent and health insurance, it would make the Grayson's situation seem more believable.
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