Posted by Roger on 10/28/2011, 12:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Lessons-Redding Area"
74.38.5.4

<< "riddled with misinformation and self-serving judgments">> Misinformation? that you neither wish to correct or define!! Self serving judgements!! In your eyes I guess <<"Do you really believe we are disconnected from the users at the site?">> Yes I do. Did you read about Democracy and everyone having a vote = all pilots included.?? <<"the vast majority of users are very happy with the way things are at the Rim (except for the negativity)">> The 4 of you know this through your abundant visits to the site and talking to pilots?? or the 4 of you just decided that "Everyone" even with no recourse are "very happy" <<"Your attitude is at the heart of the dilemma at Hat Creek Rim">> My attitude is at the heart?? I do not think that you or the permanent gang of four live in the same reality as I do. That is OK we can disagree and have different realities. But I am one pilot with no vote or recourse to the actions of the HCC whatever my "attitude" <<"you attack us, or policies, whatever YOU feel like finding fault with.">> I presume that this was the attack you mention….."Sadly the Shasta Sky Sailors the local club is just a few guys who do not live in the Redding area and rarely fly anymore" Yikes some attack!! As for policies. In my world expecting fair representation is a must. Having a permanent committee that is reelected in a closed system and then dictating its policies to the users seems unfair. Possibly not in your world!! <<"He then promptly promised another club the use permit">> History, hearsay and who cares that was 2003 <<"A handful of doubter and detractors are committed to finishing what Page started in 2003 - our elimination from the site.">> Just a handful?? Then open your club to free voting and that handful will be voted into oblivion. I dare you. <<"It's all documented Roger.>> You must have a lot of documentation <<"And you, in all of you uninformed wisdom, want to address petty unrelated matters and sling backhanded insults towards us.">> Uninformed wisdom? Petty unrelated matters. backhanded insults towards us?? Petty unrelated matters such as allowing all users at the site to vote for the committee that represents them. Back handed insults such as …….??? asking for DEMOCRACY and fair representation. <<"It was a mistake to go public with their mess, and we've apologized for that, but having been ignored trying to deal with it on a local level (all documented, Roger) we felt we had no other option.">> A public debacle demands a PUBLIC apology and with its revival recently one wonders just how sorry you all are. <<"The ball is in your court... We are willing to compromise and implement change with any group that earnestly wants to work together towards that goal.">> No I believe the ball is in YOUR court as you hold the power of change and compromise as head honcho of the SSS and the permanent 4. I on the other hand am just one pilot who does not have a vote in any of these matters. Change should start at home and by ignoring totally these lines in my previous post………. << but if the truth is……. 1) The SSS voting membership is very small around 10 or so. 2) The HCC is due to the SSS bylaws and the small number of voters a "permanent committee" 3) The majority of pilots that fly HCR have no democratic resource to any actions taken by the HCC then we have nothing further to debate apart from "cheap shots" and "criticism" and "Halls of Shame" >> you have solidified in my personal opinion the fact that we are not going to see change coming from the democratic course that I would like to see and I fully expect more rhetoric more "confusion and misinformation" and a bunch of inconsequential crap such as…… <<Who are you to decide how much flying is enough flying? Our Hat Creek Rim website has had 76,000 visitors? Where were you in 1996,97,98,99,2000,01,02? Name one site that extended an invitation to the CSG to hold their party in their LZ>> I mean who cares about all the above really. You asked me…."So, what is it going to take to make that happen? (harmony) I answered how you can do that and you totally ignore it and come up with a bunch of historical inconsequential crap. I thought your question pertained to the present time. <<We are willing to compromise and implement change with any group that earnestly wants to work together towards that goal.>> Really any group at all?? How about all pilots that fly at the rim would that be a good group to work with and it is within your power to do this. Again I fully expect a bunch of rhetoric and misinformation (all documented of course but who cares) I really, really, really, am not going to be answering more diatribes from you but I thought I would help out here. Please please Phil if you and the others genuinely want compromise and want to implement changes please think hard about this. Look seriously at whether "Founders Syndrome" is playing a part here Ask someone not related to you or flying and with no bias on either side to read this and form their opinion on HOW TO MAKE THINGS BETTER for everyone. I will be back to ignore mode if the same crap continues and I am just one person/pilot. A lot of folks ignore your diatribes and after that 90 minute phone conversation and your reply to my attempt to give you an answer that works for everyone I am going to go back to that mode unless I see democracy having its try at harmony. Summary The ball is in YOUR court You have the power to implement these changes I will not be answering any more diatribes. History is history!!! Democracy is all inclusive. I really believe that Founders Syndrome may be at work here. Compromise and implementing changes will further all pilots goals. Personal attacks do not help any one. I apologize if you felt that my comment….."Sadly the Shasta Sky Sailors the local club is just a few guys who do not live in the Redding area and rarely fly anymore" was taken as a personal attack, self serving judgement or misinformation. I am genuinely hoping that you actually read, think and listen to what I am saying and seek the opinions of your fellow committee and club members and I hope I am wrong again expecting you to totally ignore the Democratic way and continue with diatribes, inconsequential crap, and defunct history. Living just 1and a 1/4 hours drive from launch at Hat Creek and being in possession of an email direct from the FS saying that I can fly my deck chair at Hat Creek if I wish and that I do not need to be a member of ANY club/committee or deal with or listen to any body trying to assert their authority over my flying at HCR I do not "have" to answer any of your questions but I did. Good luck with the future of "your" club. Roger