Posted by Aaron Zeisler on January 11, 2012, 1:01 am
I recently came across a photograph of my grandfather, Fred W Zeisler. The info it has listed was that he was a Seaman First Class, received the European-American theater and Asiatic-Pacific theater ribbons and he served on the USS Four Lakes. I can also tell you he was from Rushville, IL born 05/06/20 and died April 68. I haven't came across his name on the Armed Guard site and was wondering if he would have been part of it. Thanks for any information!
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Ron Carlson on January 11, 2012, 10:03 pm, in reply to "Fred W Zeisler" Message modified by board administrator January 11, 2012, 10:06 pm
Aaron,
Harvel has good information for you. As he notes, the ship in which your grandfather served was known as SS FOUR LAKES, not USS FOUR LAKES. SS means "steamship" whereas USS means "United States Ship" and denotes a commissioned U.S. Navy vessel. FOUR LAKES was never a commissioned vessel.
For information about the ship, see http://shipbuildinghistory.com/history/shipyards/2large/active/alabama.htm and scroll to hull number 268. FOUR LAKES was a class T-2 tanker, built in 1944 by the Alabama Dry Dock & Shipbuilding Company, Mobile, AL. She was sold to a private shipping company in 1948, renamed V.A. FOGG in 1971, and blew up in the Gulf of Mexico in 1972 (yikes!) with the loss of 39 crew members. See http://www.usnavyoilers.com/V-A-Fogg/index.html for information about her loss.
Your grandfather was definitely a member of the U.S. Navy Armed Guard during World War II. In fact I can find records of his sailing as part of the Armed Guard detachment aboard FOUR LAKES on five voyages between August 1944 and May 1945. The voyages were between New York and England, and New York and Italy. There may have been other voyages as well, not recorded in the sources available to me. Since he received the Asiatic-Pacific theater ribbon, he must have sailed in the Pacific as well, either aboard FOUR LAKES or some other ship.
Just FYI, the Armed Guard website is not comprehensive with respect to the men who served in the Armed Guard. I don't know if a single list of all Armed Guard officers and men exists, but certainly not on the website. Most names found in the website refer to Armed Guard veterans who joined the Armed Guard Veterans Association sometime in the last 20 years or so. Your grandfather died before the Association was formed and, of course, long before there was an Armed Guard website.
If you wish I can provide a list of your grandfather's Armed Guard shipmates on the voyages I found. I would not know whether any of those men are still living.
Ron Carlson, Webmaster Armed Guard / Merchant Marine website www.armed-guard.com
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Aaron Zeisler on January 12, 2012, 9:27 am, in reply to "Re: Fred W Zeisler"
Harvel and Ron, Thanks for your information. I forgot to mention in my first post that I had already found information on the SS Four Lakes itself.
Ron, Can you tell me where you found the records of the five voyages you found his name on? I'd like to try to get that for myself.
Again, thanks for your help. I almost thought I was at a dead end on researching my grandfather's role in the war. You've brought me some new information and I thank you.
Aaron
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Ron Carlson on January 12, 2012, 10:14 am, in reply to "Re: Fred W Zeisler" 161.80.22.203
Aaron,
The information I found comes from a search of the subscription website Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com). The website is more commonly used for genealogical research but it also contains databases of the names of crew and passengers of ships that arrived in certain U.S. ports of entry after leaving from a foreign port. Information on New York City is extensive but for other ports the information is hit-or-miss. This seems particularly the case for US West Coast ports and may explain the absence of information about your grandfather sailing in the Pacific.
One has to establish a subscription to view information on Ancestry.com. Subscription information is available on the homepage. Currently a one-month membership is $22.95, which you may or may not be worth it to you.
Occasionally there are special membership deals at a lower cost and for a restricted period of time. Right now there is a 14-day free trial, which may be all you need. You may have to sign up for the one-month membership but if you cancel within 14 days -- free! What a deal.
Incidentally, in each of the five records I found your grandfather is identified as "Freddie" not Fred or Fredrick, in case you do a search. You can also search just by last name, which finds the same records.
Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Charles J Rodriguez on February 14, 2013, 7:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Fred W Zeisler" 174.141.213.42
my name is Charles J Rodriguez. my father's name was Martin Rodriguez. he was a crew member on the ship I was 12 years old when this accident happened now I come to find out after all this years they have hey Monument on the history of this ship if you could be so kind send me some information I'll conceited I will be going to Texas on February 28th to find more information thank you and God bless you
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Ron Carlson on March 27, 2013, 11:11 am, in reply to "Re: Fred W Zeisler" 161.80.22.203
Charles,
I don't know what information you are seeking, but the report of the official U.S. Coast Guard inquiry into the loss of V.A. FOGG (formerly FOUR LAKES) is at www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg545/docs/boards/vafog.pdf. The report is 105 pages long and lists by name some, but not all, of the casualties. The names of other casualties have been blacked out; your father's name does not appear.
Ron Carlson, Webmaster Armed Guard / Merchant Marine website www.armed-guard.com
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Ron Carlson on January 12, 2012, 10:31 am, in reply to "Re: Fred W Zeisler" 161.80.22.203
Aaron,
Further information for you.
You should be able to obtain your grandfather's complete military service record, which would detail which ships he was aboard or other assignments, ranks/ratings held, applicable dates, training, injuries or illnesses, etc., through the U.S. National Archives. See this page on the Armed Guard website for detailed information about how to proceed: http://www.armed-guard.com/searchmil.html. In particular see section II.A.1. - Records of Individuals - U.S. Military. You will have to contact the National Personnel Records Center, a records facility operated by the National Archives in St. Louis, MO. Provide as much identifying information as you have. Since you are not next-of-kin to your grandfather (next of kin = parent, spouse, sibling, child), it may be useful for your mother/father, or an aunt/uncle, whomever was a child of your grandfather, if any are still living, to make the request for your grandfather's service record. Next-of-kin can obtain the complete service record of a veteran, while only partial records are available to persons not next-of-kin.
There may be a charge for research time, photocopying and mailing, but the Records Center staff will provide an estimate on the cost before beginning work.
Good luck.
Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Bob Barnaby on February 7, 2013, 4:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Fred W Zeisler"
Good info from Ron. My dad, Bob Barnaby was assigned to this ship from November 1944 through November 1945 and went round the world. He was a Gunner (Armed Guard). The National Archives had al his records. The cost for his records was $70. I have a photo of him with a couple of shipmates while the ship was in Iran.
Re: Fred W Zeisler
Posted by Harvel Arnold on January 11, 2012, 9:30 pm, in reply to "Fred W Zeisler" 74.185.102.222
The SS Four Lakes was a tanker merchant ship only US Navy ships are USS . If you google SS Four Lakes then click on Texas liberty ships from WW II working class you will find a complete history of the Four Lakes. The name was later changed to SS V A Fogg.
