AG and MM Board

Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Ron Carlson on April 30, 2008, 4:35 pm
Message modified by board administrator May 1, 2008, 9:50 am

Friends,

I have just learned about an exceedingly useful source of information for finding World War II Armed Guard and merchant marine personnel.

The website www.ancestry.com, which is more commonly used for genealogical research purposes, has lists of passenger arrivals for the Port of New York for the period 1820 through 1957. Apparently World War II Armed Guard and merchant marine personnel were reported to U.S. Customs as "passengers" when their ships arrived at a U.S. port.

Well, bingo!

I searched first for our friend Tom Bowerman. There are at least three records for him, appearing as Thomas Roy Bowerman, Thomas R. Bowerman and Thos. Bowerman. He arrived in New York on July 1, 1943, September 18, 1943, and February 12, 1944, aboard the SS CHARLES SUMNER (two voyages) and the SS LEWIS LUCKENBACH. From information on the Armed Guard website, I know that these are two of the five ships in which Tom sailed during World War II. In each record he is listed as a gunners mate (third class in two cases, second class in one case) so he is clearly a member of the Armed Guard crew although "Armed Guard" does not specifically appear in these records. And in each case Tom is listed along with the entire Armed Guard crew on that ship for that arrival date. The names of the merchant crew of the same ship are also listed.

I searched for the names of other Armed Guard and merchant marine crewmen that I know and easily found some of them as well.

So, any Armed Guard sailors or merchant mariners who arrived in New York during World War II should be part of the passenger records found at ancestry.com. And anyone in the Armed Guard who was assigned to the Brooklyn Armed Guard Center could very well have sailed into New York any number of times (but could also have returned to U.S. ports other than New York, in which case they may not be in these records). You can search by name, approximate birth year, port of departure, port of arrival, name of ship, arrival year, and other keywords, or any combination of these.

You need to establish a subscription to use ancestry.com which costs $19.95 for one month, and currently includes an initial 14-day free trial period. Other longer subscriptions are available at cheaper per-month rates. And it looks like you can cancel within the 14-day trial period and end up paying nothing. So if you want to make only a few searches to find one person and/or his shipmates, the one-month subscription should work for you. If you are interested in more extensive searches, to assist your friends, for example, try a longer subscription. Click on the "Subscribe" button in the upper right corner of the ancestry.com homepage for subscription information.

I'm telling ya, this is great!

Ron Carlson, Webmaster

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Carolyn Wallace on January 26, 2009, 2:51 pm, in reply to "Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

Thanks for the help. I am just getting started on this and have no idea of areas to look. My dad Hobert Helmintoller jr was on the SS Alaskan when it sank and was on a life boat for eighteen days. My neice worked on this for a while but could not locate anything.

He was on the SS Alaskan (armed guard brooklyn) in 1942.

Thanks so much for the help. My dad is in a nursing home and I would love to find whatever I can before he is gone. I believe he has the only know picture of the SS Alaskan when it was torpeded and shelled. How I do not know. He tried to explain but it wasn't very clear today.

Again thanks to you and all the brave men who have served this country.

info

Posted by zac on March 26, 2011, 8:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

i am zac huntley my mother is angie helmintoller and her dad was larry joe then his dad was hobert mckinly sr anyway i was woundering if you can send me some familey info on you and your aunts ucles anybody because i am working on my familey tree and would like to know some more.

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Dianna Hillman Haller on June 13, 2008, 1:16 pm, in reply to "Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

Can Someone help me with some info I am trying to research? My father Ernest F. Hillman JR BM2c (I have no idea) anyway i remember him telling me when the ship he was on (an Armed Merchant Vessel I believe) was coming into Boston Harbor it collided with a tanker I think. This would have had to be around the 13 of April 1945 that is when his VA records record him being transfered to US Naval hospital Newport RI. I think the last two ships he was on was the SS MANGORE at the time of the collision i think and the SS ANDREW J. NEWBURY just before. Can anyone tell me anything about this? i am trying to do a family history for his grand children he passed away Dec 26 1990 of pancreatic cancer. He didn't talk much about it after the grandchildren came along. it is so important to me that his grand children are as proud of him as I am
Thank You
Dianna Hillman Haller

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Ron Carlson on June 16, 2008, 12:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"
134.67.6.11

Here are some suggestions for you.

For a possible source of information, see this page from the excellent web site, American Merchant Marine at War: http://usmm.org/contact.html#contact1

In addition to the possibility of obtaining information about the MANGORE directly from the American Merchant Marine at War webmaster, the website mentions information held by the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) facility in College Park, Maryland. Specifically, the NARA Modern Military Records Unit in College Park maintains a number of records that may be of use to you, including ship movement cards, Armed Guard officer reports, Armed Guard logbooks and ships' logs.

Ship movement cards or movement report cards list ports of arrival, due dates, and dates of arrival and departure, among other information. In your case, ship movement records for SS MANGORE should confirm whether she was in Boston on April 13, 1945. See http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/178.html and scroll down to 178.4, Records of the Division of Operations. This page suggests that ship movement cards are available only for the period 1917-1940 but I believe (and the experiences of others bears this out) that the availability of such records extends through World War II. The same page states that service records of shipboard personnel are available for the period 1917-1949.

NARA also has Armed Guard reports in which the commanding officer of each Armed Guard unit deployed on a merchant ship prepared a report at the end of a voyage, providing information including the names of the Armed Guard crew for that voyage. See http://www.archives.gov/publications/ref-info-papers/109/modern-military-records.pdf and scroll to page 103. Page 102 of the NARA document mentions Navy Armed Guard logbooks which may also be of interest to you.

Page 105 of the same document mentions merchant marine vessel logbooks, also likely of interest to you. Some merchant marine vessel logbooks are held not at the Maryland facility but at NARA regional facilities across the United States for ports (where a given voyage ended) served by that region. If there had been a collision between MANGORE and another vessel in Boston, particularly a serious collision, that voyage of the MANGORE may have ended in Boston and her logbook may be in the New England regional NARA facility in Boston. Certainly a collision with another vessel would have been mentioned in the log of the MANGORE. See http://www.archives.gov/locations/ for the location of NARA regional archives.

One can do research at NARA facilities in person free of charge, other than photocopying expenses, but obviously that is feasible only if you reside near the facility or can travel to the facility. Or you can request research assistance from NARA staff, which involves a cost. Contact the Modern Military Records Unit at this address:

Modern Military Records Unit
National Archives at College Park
8601 Adelphi Road
College Park, MD 20740-6001

Good luck.

Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Armed Guard website www.armed-guard.com

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Dianna on June 16, 2008, 1:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

Thank You, you have given a wealth of resources to start with.

Regards
Dianna

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Oscar (Ole) W. Olsen on May 25, 2008, 8:21 pm, in reply to "Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

Does any remember me? Muskegon, MI

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by KENNETH HATHAWAY on July 14, 2008, 10:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

Does any one out there remember me? I sailed to Arkangel Russia aboerd the SS White Clover, Sailed to Sicily invation aboard the SS ROBER ROWAN and to MURMANSK aboard the SS BENJAMIN SCHLESINGER. Please respond...

Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by William Jackson on December 13, 2012, 12:37 am, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

My father was a gunners mate on the Benajamin Schlesinger. He also did the Murmansk Run. His name was Bruce L. Jackson.

Re: Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by kenneth Hathaway on December 15, 2012, 5:49 pm, in reply to "Benajamin Schlesinger"

If any one Has a list of the gun Crew that was on the Benjamin Schlesinger Murmansk run late 1943 would you please pass it on to me.. Kenneth Hathaway pasmstr@sbcglobal.net

Re: Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by kenneth Hathaway on December 15, 2012, 5:26 pm, in reply to "Benajamin Schlesinger"

I was Boatswain Mate petty officer in charge of the gun crew on the S.S. Benjamin Schlesinger on the Murmansk run late 1943.. I tried to send pictures of the gun crew to William Jackson.. notice fail to deliver.. I would like Jackson's e-mail address..

Re: Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by Kenneth Hathaway on December 13, 2012, 11:58 am, in reply to "Benajamin Schlesinger"

Hi William;
I was boatswains mate on the Benjamin Schlesinger on the run to Murmansk.I have pictures of that gun crew, but do not have a list of their names. The Schlesinger made two trips to Murmansk one late 1943 and another in late 1944. I was on the 1943 trip. July 11 1943 I was on the SS Robert Rowan Bombed and sunk in Sicily. Then after R&R went aboard the Schlesinger and to Murmansk. I am 90 years old and memory a bit weak some times. Thanks for your inquiry. If you have responds from others would you please pass info on to me. Thank you.

Re: Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by kenneth Hathaway on December 15, 2012, 5:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Benajamin Schlesinger"
69.109.221.83

William Jackson did not receive my e-mail after I posted message for him, maybe I do not have the right e-mail address. respond please..

Re: Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by kenneth Hathaway on December 15, 2012, 6:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Benajamin Schlesinger"
69.109.221.83

I am only looking for William Jackson's e-mail address.. He left a message on AG and MM Board Dec 13 I would like to contact him.. If you do not have that information. Do not respond to this inquire..

Re: Benajamin Schlesinger

Posted by William Jackson on December 18, 2012, 1:59 am, in reply to "Re: Benajamin Schlesinger"

William Jackson email.

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Jos on January 1, 2010, 7:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

Kenneth to refresh your memory:
Also as Armed Gurad on board:
Andrews
Hall
Hart
Kidd
Moran
Roberts
Shearer
Stutts
Thorp
Upchurch
Weyer

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by KENNETH HATHAWAY on January 8, 2010, 5:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

THESE ARE THE NAMES OF THE GUN CREW ABOARD THE SS WHITE CLOVER A TRIP TO ARKANGELE 1942...
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, HOW MANY OF THIS GUN CREW ARE STILL WITH US???

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Terry on October 23, 2008, 12:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

I'm trying to find info on my grandfather Fredrick (fred) Surber a gunner??? I don't what ship or ships but I do know that he had sent my Grandmother a picture of himself during the war and they traced it to Italy???

Do you recall that name?? If so I would like to find out more info on things, my Grandfather never spoke about it.

Thank you

Namesakes of the Armed Guard

Posted by Bill Gonyo on May 6, 2008, 11:00 am, in reply to "Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

I am an associate currently working on the namesakes of the individual vessels of the United States Navy for the web site NavSource.org. NavSource is a group of Volunteers who are not paid for their time and efforts; we do it because we all share the same respect and love of naval history and through our efforts provide a free resource for the Naval enthusiast. I need assistance in obtaining digital images of the Armed Guard men having ships named in their honor. The images will be posted along with their individual biographies. Full credit will be so noted on the individual ships page. I am looking forward to hearing from you in the very near future on my quest to pay tribute to those whom paid the ultimate price. Please feel free to pay us a visit at NavSource.org to see our on-going project. Thank you very much for your time in this matter.

Ens. John Joseph Brennan USS Brennan (DE-13)
Lt. (j.g.) John Randolph Borum USS Borum (DE-790)
Ens. Kendall Carl Campbell USS Kendall C. Campbell (DE-443)
Lt (j.g.) William Ralph Herzog USS Herzog (DE-178)
Ens. Charles Nance Major USS Major (DE-796)
Ens. Hunter Marshall III USS Hunter Marshall (APD-112)
Lt. (j.g.) Kenneth Hart Muir USS Muir (DE-770)
Ens. Kay Kopl Vesole USS Vesole (DD-878)
Sn. William Daniel Wagner USS Wagner (DE-539)
Lt. (j.g.) Patrick Joseph Walsh USS Walsk (APD-111)
Lt. (j.g.) Kenneth Martin Willett USS Kenneth M. Willett (DE-354)
Sn. William John Yokes USS Yokes (DE-668)

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Lynette Wootan on May 2, 2008, 5:19 pm, in reply to "Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"
24.117.35.3

THANK YOU! I have just begun to search for information regarding my father Dunae Wootan who served as a signalman in the Merchant Marines during WWII. And there he was on ancestry.com. Can you tell me more about the armed guard. we found a receipt that he had turned in ta complete armed guard uniform and he was to keep that receipt until reassigned.

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Rick Pitz on May 3, 2008, 12:14 am, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"
71.132.138.242

Check out the Armed Guard web site at http://www.armed-guard.com/

That should keep you busy for a few years!

A simple description is that due to the large number of merchant ships being sunk by the German submarines, the government installed limited numbers of guns on merchant ships, and provided a small Navy Armed Guard crew to man those guns. In addition to gunnery personnel, there were often signalmen who were responsible for communication between ships using flags, semaphores, blinker lights, etc. There were also sometimes radio personnel as part of the Armed Guard crew. The Armed Guard men were part of the US Navy, and not Merchant Marines. They served alongside the merchant marine crews who handled all other aspects of the merchant ships. Armed Guards also served on troop transport ships which were operated by the Army and the Navy.

The Armed merchant ships usually sailed in convoys with a small number of Navy ships as escort.

During the war, more than 140,000 men served in the Armed Guard.

Hope that helps.

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Cal Cantrill on May 5, 2008, 10:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

I was aboard two ships in the south pacific,of which I can not find any information on either one of them,maybe this site will help me???
One ship was the USAT Shawnee and the other a Tanker named the SS Fort Stanwick.
All the records I kept on both ships were stolen from me with all my Sea Bag gear,including my Diary.
If anyone can give me a clue where I can find info on these two ships I would sure appreciate it. With what I have been able to find out so far, is they were non exsisting,I some time wonder if my presence on these two ships were only a DREAM, and not really a good one????

Cal Cantrill

USAT Shawnee

Posted by Alvin L. Baker on November 6, 2009, 12:22 am, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"

I am also looking for information on the USAT Shawnee. My Uncle William (Bill) Archie Lucas served in her from 6-11-45 through 18-9-45. This is the only ship that I can find in what records that I have been given by Navy Personnel Command. If any one has information or knows him please get in touch with me.
Thank You

USAT Shawnee

Posted by David Montgomery on January 5, 2010, 11:14 am, in reply to "USAT Shawnee"

Greetings. Here's what I know.

The Shawnee started out service as a coastal liner with the Clyde line serving largely between New York, Florida and the Caribbean. She was launched in April 1927 and was sister ship to the SS Iroquois (later the Hospital Ship USS Solace during WWII and even later the SS Ankara after the war up thru the end of the 70's). During her heyday, the Shawnee was considered a fine ship. Babe Ruth himself voyaged on her in Feb. 1931.

When war broke out in Europe in 1939, the Shawnee was chartered briefly by the US Govt. to help repatriate Americans living there. She continued to serve in commercial service until the US joined the war following the attack on Pearl Harbor when she was taken over for use as a troop ship. She was in the Atlantic theater until early 1944 when she went to the Pacific. She remained in government service until 1946. There are a few stories of her conditions being rather horrid (lice, vermin, ship-wide diarrhea, etc). There are several photos available of her on the Internet helping transport Japanese Americans back to Hawaii following internment. See following example: http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft3g5004td/?query=Shawnee&brand=calisphere
Those are the only ones I have found of her during the war.

After the war she was purchased by the Iberian Star Line and renamed "City of Lisbon". That was a short-lived chapter in her life. Following a collision with a cargo ship, she was nearly scrapped but was instead purchased by Yugoslavian interests and renamed the "Partizanka." (Note there have been more than one ship by this name over the years). She operated largely as a migrant ship from 1947 to 1949. She was destroyed by fire (quite likely arson) while undergoing repairs in Split in August 1949.

A good picture can be seen at the following site:
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20P/slides/Partizanka-01.html

I hope that's of some help.

Best regards,

David Montgomery (grandson of WWII Navy veteran, Dr. Hugh Montgomery - USS Solace, Norco Naval Hospital and Guam Naval Base 18 Hospital)

Re: USAT Shawnee

Posted by emmitt jackson squires on December 18, 2012, 2:29 am, in reply to "USAT Shawnee"

my grand father was arthur squires,on sept 16 131 he sailed from havana harbor to new york city on the shawnee,ive been trying to find out why he was in cuba and what was going on in cuba in 1931 thanks

reply

Posted by HensleyDaisy on January 29, 2012, 3:23 am, in reply to "USAT Shawnee"
31.184.236.63

Have no a lot of cash to buy a car? You should not worry, because this is possible to get the personal loans to resolve all the problems. Therefore take a car loan to buy all you need.

Re: USAT Shawnee

Posted by Alvin L. Baker on August 22, 2010, 12:09 pm, in reply to "USAT Shawnee"
207.200.116.70

I had a Uncle that was on the Shawnee during the end of the war. I am looking for any information that I can find on him and the ship. I know he was in Peral on the Shawnee and went to the Phillipines. The ship was in Manila. I know the ship went to other places but the only one he talked about was Japain. I do not have dates that the ship was in any of these places. I am put together his time in the Navy. He was stationed at AGC(Pacific) Norfolk, VA and AGC New Orleans, LA. He was in San Francisco an that is where he borded Shawnee. I have got some of the medals that he was suposed to got before he was out and did not but I have to know where the ship went when he was on her to get the others that I think he was suposed to have gotten. His name is William (Bill) Archie Jr. Slc V-6. Now what the v-6 means I have not been able to find out. I am having no luck at finding much on her or him. He pased away on Dec 17, 1993 age 69. I have not been able to find any thing that the family had or he had pertaining to his Naval Service. If you can find any thing or know any thing about the above I would appriciate it if you would let me know any thing.

Thank you for your time and effort

Sencerly,

Alvin L. Baker
former
PO3 USN

USAT Shawnee & SS Benj Harrison

Posted by Judith on November 6, 2011, 2:22 pm, in reply to "Re: USAT Shawnee"

I found my father's name on a passenger list for the USAT Shawnee in March 1943. Handwriting at the top of the page says, "Survivors s/s Benjamin Harrison." The Harrison was torpedoed by a U boat on 4 March. The Shawnee left Algeria on 24 March and arrived in Brooklyn around 8 April (hard to read).

Can anyone help me find information about these two ships and their passengers?

Thank you, Judith King

Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews

Posted by Rick Pitz on May 9, 2008, 1:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Important information source for finding AG and merchant marine crews"
71.132.133.39

Cal:

I did a Google Search on both ships (go to www.google.com and enter the name of the ship in the search box, then click search button). Many references to these ships are listed, and should help you sort out some of your "bad dreams".

Rick

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