[ Tao Speaks ]

The old men and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 6/26/2009, 6:57 am 70.100.195.X Greetings all, The old men were sitting on the creek bank, fishing, when the old boy spoke up. I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we can agree that; " While all other things move spontaneously on the course proper to them, man has stunted and maimed his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of distinguishing alternatives, the right and wrong, benefit and harm, self and others, reasoning in order to judge between them. To recover and educate his knack he must learn to reflect his situation with the unclouded clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with the immediacy of an echo to a sound or shadow to a shape." Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on his hook, said, " The fundamental error is to suppose that life presents us with issues which must be formulated in words so that we can envisage alternatives and find reasons for preferring one to the other." Apparently nobody had shown Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling to read the book, fishing for dummies, written by those logical Greek geeks. A long long time had passed when a dandelion sprang up from where the old men had fished. As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and so giving. I am only what has gone before, not this or that, but because I'm what you see, I am what you desire. Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner chapters A classic of Tao Translated by AC Graham in peace, gar  Post a Response

A Bridge Between Self and Other. Posted by Butcho on 6/26/2009, 9:17 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 216.96.14.X --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : gar, It is common for two or more of good will to use extremes when speaking to extremes. In that way it is hoped that a compromise, an underlying unity, can be realized. Otherwise it is just one extreme after another. Tit for tat. There is nothing inherently wrong with the Intellect. The problem is when it is the lead character in the play of life. No lead character exists. Those that characterize the Chuang Tzu as a purely subjective argument have lost sight of the forest for the trees. Pure relativity needs to be balanced by a holistic vision if it is to be in accord with the Tao. It takes two to Tango. The intellect as well as one's intuition. Genuine truth cannot be communicated through words. But some words manage to speak to us where others don't. Different words for different folks. From Nina's translation of the Chuang Tzu: "Zhuangzi and Hui Zi were strolling on a bridge spanning the Hao River when they stopped for a moment. Zhuangzi said: "The fish come up and swim so leisurely. That's how fish enjoy themselves." Hui Ze said: "You're not a fish. How do you know how fish enjoy themselves?" Zhuangzi said: "You're not me. How do you know that I don't know how fish enjoy themselves?" Hui Zi said: "I'm not you so I certainly do not know what you do. You're certainly not a fish, so you can't possibly know what a fish enjoys." Zhuangzi said: "Please think back to the beginning of this conversation. You asked me how I knew the fish were enjoying themselves. You're the one who asked the question. You already knew I knew that, but you asked me anyway. I knew that when we stopped here." Let me try putting it another way. Two friends were wandering along and came to the center of a bridge between self and other. Looking at the river beneath their feet one watched and the other noted some fish swimming above their own below. One said: "Fish like to swim in a carefree manner." The other said: "How is it that you know what something other than yourself likes or dislikes?" One said: "Do you think you are me? Otherwise how would you think you know what I know or don't know." The other said: "I am not you. Nor are you the fish. How can we know anything about each other?" One said: "Logic is a circular path. Just when one thinks one is getting somewhere with existential concerns one must begin again. A castle built upon sand. So let us short-circuit the circuit of the intellect with a leap of the intuition. I can only really know anything about anything when I watch with my heart. When I stop thinking about feeling. My happiness feels your happiness. My pain feels your pain. And so I know what makes fish happy. It is the intellect that divides what is by nature whole and the heart that unites. From the first totality is a unitive one. I can feel It in my heart." It is the heart that bridges one aspect of the whole with another. Butcho  Post a Response

Re: A Bridge Between Self and Other. Posted by Steve on 6/26/2009, 10:46 am, in reply to "A Bridge Between Self and Other." 68.33.168.X : It is common for two or more of good will to : use extremes when speaking to extremes. In : that way it is hoped that a compromise, an : underlying unity, can be realized. Otherwise : it is just one extreme after another. Tit : for tat. ------------------------- Yes, it's common to talk in extremes. Human communication is such that subtlety often does not convey. Sometimes it does. Often it does not. Our ears--always perfectly attuned--hear what they need to hear. I still don't understand the link between 'compromise' and 'underlying unity,' Butcho. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate.  Post a Response

Re: The Grey Chi moth and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 6/27/2009, 5:44 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.195.X --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : Greetings master pu gong ying, said the grey chi moth. I'm here to take what you are so willing to give. But before I do, why is it that you have no thorns or needles to repulse me? Ah! my friend moth, it seems my existence is to further the way of all things. But when the deer eats you, you'll be gone, the moth said. Doesn't it make you sad? No, the master said. Since we exist so close to Tao, only the knack of continuance is realized. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_view_of_a_dandelion.JPG in peace, gar :  Post a Response

Re: A Bridge Between Self and Other. Posted by Butcho on 6/27/2009, 7:22 am, in reply to "Re: A Bridge Between Self and Other." 162.40.51.X --Previous Message-- : It is common for two or more of good will to : use extremes when speaking to extremes. In : that way it is hoped that a compromise, an : underlying unity, can be realized. Otherwise : it is just one extreme after another. Tit : for tat. : : ------------------------- : : Yes, it's common to talk in extremes. Human : communication is such that subtlety often : does not convey. : : Sometimes it does. Often it does not. Our : ears--always perfectly attuned--hear what : they need to hear. : : I still don't understand the link between : 'compromise' and 'underlying unity,' Butcho. : : Perhaps you'd care to elaborate. : : : Steve, There you go again with your "always perfectly" attuned ears. Right! I still can't believe I ever thought I could have a conversation with you that didn't end in inanity. Live and learn. Butcho  Post a Response

The Wind and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 6/28/2009, 5:58 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.195.X --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar In the stillness of the morning air master pu gong ying heard a whisper calling out. Master, I was the wind but I've lost my power, what should I do? Greetings wind, it seems by not doing, you are making it possible to return to what you are. The power that comes from heaven will make you strong again. But master, heaven has forsaken me. Without power I'm no longer the wind. Be cool or hot, wind, heaven shows us the way. Go where you are not, embrace change, be what you need to be. Ah, yes master, as the sun rises I feel heavens energy returning so I can perform my duties and carry your most precious seeds to where they are not. in peace, gar  Post a Response

The Flute player and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 6/29/2009, 4:39 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.195.X --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar The traveler sat peacefully on the Creek bank playing his flute, among the brilliant yellow dandelions, and felt serenity bloom. Pu gong ying spoke up and said, how has your mind found such serenity friend? Maybe master it's because I'm only existing in this moment, I've seem to have lost my memories. And tomorrow will take care of itself. But i am curious master, can i forget the way? Maybe so friend. When you have forgotten how to live you will be returned to emptiness. Like the space in the vessel you'll return to the usefulness of non-being. Yes master, that is why this serenity blooms. in peace, gar  Post a Response

The Grasshopper and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 7/15/2009, 6:00 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : As the morning mist rose up from Deer creek pu gong ying heard grasshopper shout, Look how high I'm hopping dandelion, don't you think I'm the best hopper you have ever seen? Yes grasshopper you can hop high. But does high hopping make you a better grasshopper? Yes indeed dandelion, all the other grasshoppers must envy my skill in hopping. Look, this will be my greatest hop yet. As grasshopper leap high in the air, crow flew down and swallowed him. Well, ant said, who was sitting on dandelion, if grasshopper hadn't jumped so high crow would have never seen him. Maybe, friend ant, in "leveling all things", when one's interest is in his own person he cannot equalize things. Thus, he has lost the charter of heaven. in peace, gar :  Post a Response

Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion Posted by Butcho on 7/15/2009, 8:55 am, in reply to "The Grasshopper and the Dandelion" 71.30.138.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : : As the morning mist rose up from Deer creek : pu gong ying heard grasshopper shout, : : Look how high I'm hopping dandelion, don't : you think I'm the best hopper you have ever : seen? : : Yes grasshopper you can hop high. But does : high hopping make you a better grasshopper? : : Yes indeed dandelion, all the other : grasshoppers must envy my skill in hopping. : : Look, this will be my greatest hop yet. : : As grasshopper leap high in the air, crow : flew down and swallowed him. : : Well, ant said, who was sitting on : dandelion, if grasshopper hadn't jumped so : high crow would have never seen him. : : Maybe, friend ant, in "leveling all : things", when one's interest is in his : own person he cannot equalize things. Thus, : he has lost the charter of heaven. : : in peace, : gar : : : gar, You really do have to quit talking to yourself. People will talk. There are no lines of demarcation in nature. Rather, there are merely areas of confluence. No one knows where one thing ends and another begins. Our best efforts to know one thing from another amount to little more than placeholders. There are no fixed distinctions. And yet all is not One. All is a unitive one. More than one, but less than two. Magic. Butcho  Post a Response

Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 7/15/2009, 9:10 am, in reply to "Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X : : gar, : : You really do have to quit talking to : yourself. : : People will talk. : : There are no lines of demarcation in nature. : Rather, there are merely areas of : confluence. No one knows where one thing : ends and another begins. Our best efforts to : know one thing from another amount to little : more than placeholders. There are no fixed : distinctions. And yet all is not One. All is : a unitive one. More than one, but less than : two. Magic. : : Butcho : : : Greetings Butcho, Maybe I'm not talking to myself, but just listening out loud. in peace, gar  Post a Response

Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion Posted by mu-tiger on 7/16/2009, 6:59 pm, in reply to "Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion" 64.203.192.X Butch, you really say so well what i've been unable to express to others. Well done, my friend.  Post a Response

Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion Posted by Butcho on 7/18/2009, 8:51 pm, in reply to "Re: The Grasshopper and the Dandelion" 162.39.190.X --Previous Message-- : Butch, you really say so well what i've been : unable to express to others. Well done, my : friend. : : mu-tiger, Thank you for the encouragement. If I have any skill with words it is in no small part due to the patience and feedback of each of my friends here at Tao Speaks. Butcho  Post a Response

The Mockingbird and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 7/19/2009, 6:45 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : As daylight enlightened Deer Creek pu gong ying gazed at it's reflection upon it's water. But instead of seeing a dandelion it saw a mockingbird. Hello, pu gong ying said. How come you are my reflection? Greetings my friend, as you know, my ability to harmonize with what I encounter can enable me to be more than myself but distinct from all all others. But how can you look like a dandelion when you are a bird? If the water is not still, our perception of the experience is that of the turbulence and can look like anything to the mind. But if the water is clear and calm there is nothing to reflect. So, spoke pu gong ying, emptiness is where heaven resides? As mockingbird flew away, to some it's heaven, to others it's hell. in peace, gar :  Post a Response

Re: The Mockingbird and the Dandelion Posted by Butcho on 7/20/2009, 10:00 pm, in reply to "The Mockingbird and the Dandelion" 75.88.42.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : : : As daylight enlightened Deer Creek pu gong : ying gazed at it's reflection upon it's : water. But instead of seeing a dandelion it : saw a mockingbird. : : Hello, pu gong ying said. How come you are : my reflection? : : Greetings my friend, as you know, my ability : to harmonize with what I encounter can : enable me to be more than myself but : distinct from all all others. : : But how can you look like a dandelion when : you are a bird? : : If the water is not still, our perception of : the experience is that of the turbulence : and can look like anything to the mind. But : if the water is clear and calm there is : nothing to reflect. : : So, spoke pu gong ying, emptiness is where : heaven resides? : : As mockingbird flew away, to some it's : heaven, to others it's hell. : : in peace, : gar : : gar, When water is clear and calm it accurately reflects whatever is before it. When our mind is clear and calm it accurately perceives whatever is before it. Butcho  Post a Response

Re: The Wind and the Dandelion Posted by dagmar on 7/20/2009, 11:25 pm, in reply to "The Wind and the Dandelion" 70.72.141.X thanks for the stories Gar --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Greetings all, : : The old men were sitting on the creek bank, : fishing, when the old boy spoke up. : : I bet you guys a nickel that as Taoist we : can agree that; " While all other : things move spontaneously on the course : proper to them, man has stunted and maimed : his spontaneous aptitude by the habit of : distinguishing alternatives, the right and : wrong, benefit and harm, self and others , : reasoning in order to judge between them. To : recover and educate his knack he must learn : to reflect his situation with the unclouded : clarity of a mirror, and respond to it with : the immediacy of an echo to a sound or : shadow to a shape." : : Chuang-tzu, who was fishing without bait on : his hook, said, " The fundamental error : is to suppose that life presents us with : issues which must be formulated in words so : that we can envisage alternatives and find : reasons for preferring one to the : other." Apparently nobody had shown : Chuang-tzu how to fish and he was unwilling : to read the book, fishing for dummies, : written by those logical Greek geeks. : : A long long time had passed when a dandelion : sprang up from where the old men had fished. : As a bee sat on the yellow pedals it said to : the dandelion, why are you so plentiful and : so giving. : : I am only what has gone before, not this or : that, but because I'm what you see, I am : what you desire. : : Quotes from the book, CHUANG-TZU the inner : chapters A classic of Tao : Translated by AC Graham : : in peace, : gar : : : In the stillness of the morning air master : pu gong ying heard a whisper calling out. : Master, I was the wind but I've lost my : power, what should I do? : : Greetings wind, it seems by not doing, you : are making it possible to return to what you : are. The power that comes from heaven will : make you strong again. : : But master, heaven has forsaken me. Without : power I'm no longer the wind. : : Be cool or hot, wind, heaven shows us the : way. Go where you are not, embrace change, : be what you need to be. : : Ah, yes master, as the sun rises I feel : heavens energy returning so I can perform my : duties and carry your most precious seeds to : where they are not. : : in peace, : gar :  Post a Response

When, what is, becomes Invisible Posted by gar on 7/21/2009, 5:28 am, in reply to "Re: The Mockingbird and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X : gar, : : When water is clear and calm it accurately : reflects whatever is before it. : : When our mind is clear and calm it : accurately perceives whatever is before it. : : Butcho : Greetings Butcho, Water can achieve a state where it becomes invisible. When there is nothing to reflect perfect clarity seems to exist. Reminds me of looking up at 90' of clear water and seeing only light. So, when our mind perceives, it can only sense what it's capable of of sensing. Thus, if you realize that our minds cannot sense accurately then reality becomes fluid and can only have an intellectual approximation. When mind gets closer and closer to 'trance state' brain activity slows. All things dissolve towards emptiness. The virtue of emptiness seems limitless. in peace, gar  Post a Response

Re: When, what is, becomes Invisible Posted by Gar Freeman on 7/24/2009, 6:36 am, in reply to "When, what is, becomes Invisible" 81.255.164.X If I do not perceive myself as having an existence, then nothing else can exist either. As the observer, I give existence to that which I observe. Nothing in my universe can exist unless I have observed it. Here I use the term observation in a very large sense, and I incorporate the abstract concept of conjecture, or idea, as being part of the observation process. Nothing can exist in my universe unless I have imagined that it can exist. I am God in my universe. I am the Alpha and the Omega. The universe began its existence at the instant that I perceived that I existed. The universe shall cease to exist at the instant that I lose my awareness of myself. Another Gar... --Previous Message-- : : : gar, : : When water is clear and calm it accurately : reflects whatever is before it. : : When our mind is clear and calm it : accurately perceives whatever is before it. : : Butcho : : : Greetings Butcho, : : Water can achieve a state where it becomes : invisible. : : When there is nothing to reflect perfect : clarity seems to exist. : : Reminds me of looking up at 90' of clear : water and seeing only light. : : So, when our mind perceives, it can only : sense what it's capable of of sensing. : : Thus, if you realize that our minds cannot : sense accurately then reality becomes fluid : and can only have an intellectual : approximation. : : When mind gets closer and closer to 'trance : state' : brain activity slows. All things dissolve : towards emptiness. : : The virtue of emptiness seems limitless. : : in peace, : gar :  Post a Response

Re: When, what is, becomes Invisible Posted by gar on 7/24/2009, 8:46 am, in reply to "Re: When, what is, becomes Invisible" 70.100.197.X --Previous Message-- : If I do not perceive myself as having an : existence, then nothing else can exist : either. As the observer, I give existence : to that which I observe. Nothing in my : universe can exist unless I have observed : it. Here I use the term observation in a : very large sense, and I incorporate the : abstract concept of conjecture, or idea, as : being part of the observation process. : Nothing can exist in my universe unless I : have imagined that it can exist. : : I am God in my universe. I am the Alpha and : the Omega. The universe began its existence : at the instant that I perceived that I : existed. The universe shall cease to exist : at the instant that I lose my awareness of : myself. : : Another Gar... : Greetings Gar Freeman, Welcome to Tao Speaks. Always nice to hear another voice that makes up consciousness. : in peace, : gar : : :  Post a Response

Water and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 7/30/2009, 6:13 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X As the rain slowed to just a mist pu gong ying felt refreshed and greeted the new day. Hello, master, said the rain drop as it clung to pu gong ying soft yellow pedals. And it’s refreshing to feel you, master of Tao. Please tell me rain drop where to you come from? Some say you come from heaven while others say you are heaven. Ah, my friend, it seems that what appears before you is what you see. Sometimes I’m a drop of water but also can be a cloud floating high in the air and when circumstances are just so I can be as hard as a rock. So as you observe water you are looking a just a moment in time and I appear as a thing. But if you could observe more closely you would see that water is always changing. Ok, but who are your mother and father? It seems dandelion that the elements are the parents of all things. Then what was before the elements? Perhaps non-being gave birth to being. In peace, gar  Post a Response

Re: Water and the Dandelion Posted by ren ying on 8/1/2009, 3:15 am, in reply to "Water and the Dandelion" 85.181.27.X --Previous Message-- : : As the rain slowed to just a mist pu gong : ying felt refreshed and greeted the new day. : : Hello, master, said the rain drop as it : clung to pu gong ying soft yellow pedals. : : And it’s refreshing to feel you, master of : Tao. : : Please tell me rain drop where to you come : from? Some say you come from heaven while : others say you are heaven. : : Ah, my friend, it seems that what appears : before you is what you see. Sometimes I’m a : drop of water but also can be a cloud : floating high in the air and when : circumstances are just so I can be as hard : as a rock. So as you observe water you are : looking a just a moment in time and I appear : as a thing. But if you could observe more : closely you would see that water is always : changing. : : Ok, but who are your mother and father? : : It seems dandelion that the elements are the : parents of all things. : : Then what was before the elements? : : Perhaps non-being gave birth to being. : : In peace, : gar : : : Thank you for this - i like this story... metapher for all is changing... ?!  Post a Response

Re: Water and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 8/1/2009, 5:32 am, in reply to "Re: Water and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X --Previous Message-- : : --Previous Message-- : : As the rain slowed to just a mist pu gong : ying felt refreshed and greeted the new day. : : Hello, master, said the rain drop as it : clung to pu gong ying soft yellow pedals. : : And it’s refreshing to feel you, master of : Tao. : : Please tell me rain drop where to you come : from? Some say you come from heaven while : others say you are heaven. : : Ah, my friend, it seems that what appears : before you is what you see. Sometimes I’m a : drop of water but also can be a cloud : floating high in the air and when : circumstances are just so I can be as hard : as a rock. So as you observe water you are : looking a just a moment in time and I appear : as a thing. But if you could observe more : closely you would see that water is always : changing. : : Ok, but who are your mother and father? : : It seems dandelion that the elements are the : parents of all things. : : Then what was before the elements? : : Perhaps non-being gave birth to being. : : In peace, : gar : : : : : Thank you for this - i like this story... : : metapher for all is changing... ?! : : It seems, ren ying, we both find 'te' virtue in swing. in peace, gar  Post a Response

Rat and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 8/1/2009, 6:14 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X Pu gong ying felt the soft brushing of rat whiskers on its soft yellow pedals. I think we have been waiting for you, but wasn’t aware of it until now. Greetings Rat, why do you appear before us today? I’m here now because you are ready to experience all this, with your Apophatic nature. How do you know we are ready, old rat? Because, pu gong ying, you have forgotten all, and live by nurturing the way. in peace, gar  Post a Response

Re: Rat and the Dandelion Posted by Butcho on 8/1/2009, 9:25 am, in reply to "Rat and the Dandelion" 216.96.15.X --Previous Message-- : : Pu gong ying felt the soft brushing of rat : whiskers on its soft yellow pedals. : : I think we have been waiting for you, but : wasn’t aware of it until now. : : Greetings Rat, why do you appear before us : today? : : I’m here now because you are ready to : experience all this, with your Apophatic : nature. : : How do you know we are ready, old rat? : : Because, pu gong ying, you have forgotten : all, and live by nurturing the way. : : in peace, : gar : : gar, Yeah, I think that is the gist of it. Until we let go of even our concepts, or way of seeing reality filtered through the darkened lens of our conditioned thus limited understanding we are not able to see the light of day as it is. Let alone anything else. The beginner's mind is no longer trying to create reality. In this way reality can be seen as it is. Zen is not a pragmatic consideration, but a practical application. In this sense Aaron in his decree that it does not matter what we think nearly so much as it matters what we do is spot on in my opinion. ... speaking of rat I suppose there is a bit of the old apophatic mysticism in my comings and goings as well. Of course I am not as good at negation as the old rat is but then I am better looking. I am easier to look at even when I can't be seen. What are you looking at you preteritic voyeur you? Tourist anyway. I digress. Again. That is I like to say that existence is ineffable. Beyond this or that. Beyond our best attempts to label It, Her, Him, Whatever. The eternal Tao. Or, hold on to your girdles ladies and gentleman, God! I am bad. Somebody spank me. Where is Steve when I need him? Upstart anyway. Speaking of Lian Dao Nina must be pulling her hair out by now. What goes around comes around I always say purple hair in purple places. Now I've gone esoteric. I am really in a bad mood today. Or was it yesterday? Whatever it was it came suddenly. Oh hell, I may as well go and say it. Apophatic is the yin to the yang of cataphatic. One being negation the other being affirmation. So even though the apophatic mystic reports that the unknowable can only be known through what it is not there is another side to the unitive sided rhetorical arguments of the great mystics. It is the negation of even our negations and our positions, of the via negativa and the positiva, that leads to the Great Affirmation. The negation of our concepts that leads to the Great Beyond that is both far and near. We always create a dichotomy when we point in one direction only. There are two paths that lead to the unitive path. The eternal Tao has two sides. The above views are not necessarily the views of the management of Tao Speaks. Butcho  Post a Response

Re: Rat and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 8/1/2009, 10:00 am, in reply to "Re: Rat and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : Pu gong ying felt the soft brushing of rat : whiskers on its soft yellow pedals. : : I think we have been waiting for you, but : wasn’t aware of it until now. : : Greetings Rat, why do you appear before us : today? : : I’m here now because you are ready to : experience all this, with your Apophatic : nature. : : How do you know we are ready, old rat? : : Because, pu gong ying, you have forgotten : all, and live by nurturing the way. : : in peace, : gar : : : gar, : : Yeah, I think that is the gist of it. Until : we let go of even our concepts, or way of : seeing reality filtered through the darkened : lens of our conditioned thus limited : understanding we are not able to see the : light of day as it is. Let alone anything : else. : : The beginner's mind is no longer trying to : create reality. In this way reality can be : seen as it is. Zen is not a pragmatic : consideration, but a practical application. : In this sense Aaron in his decree that it : does not matter what we think nearly so much : as it matters what we do is spot on in my : opinion. : : ... speaking of rat I suppose there is a bit : of the old apophatic mysticism in my comings : and goings as well. Of course I am not as : good at negation as the old rat is but then : I am better looking. I am easier to look at : even when I can't be seen. What are you : looking at you preteritic voyeur you? : Tourist anyway. I digress. Again. That is I : like to say that existence is ineffable. : Beyond this or that. Beyond our best : attempts to label It, Her, Him, Whatever. : The eternal Tao. Or, hold on to your girdles : ladies and gentleman, God! : : I am bad. Somebody spank me. Where is Steve : when I need him? Upstart anyway. Speaking of : Lian Dao Nina must be pulling her hair out : by now. What goes around comes around I : always say purple hair in purple places. Now : I've gone esoteric. I am really in a bad : mood today. Or was it yesterday? Whatever it : was it came suddenly. : : Oh hell, I may as well go and say it. : Apophatic is the yin to the yang of : cataphatic. One being negation the other : being affirmation. So even though the : apophatic mystic reports that the unknowable : can only be known through what it is not : there is another side to the unitive sided : rhetorical arguments of the great mystics. : It is the negation of even our negations and : our positions, of the via negativa and the : positiva, that leads to the Great : Affirmation. The negation of our concepts : that leads to the Great Beyond that is both : far and near. We always create a dichotomy : when we point in one direction only. : : There are two paths that lead to the unitive : path. The eternal Tao has two sides. : : The above views are not necessarily the : views of the management of Tao Speaks. : : Butcho : Greetings Butcho, You will have to excuse me, I'm a bit dizzy from reading your words. Have you ever turned into butter from all that churning? It seems rat's peace comes from his 'doubt' reality. Where does your peace come from? P.S. It seems i'm "voyeuring" the past, present, future, all at the same time. in peace, gar  Post a Response

Re: Rat and the Dandelion Posted by Butcho on 8/1/2009, 8:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Rat and the Dandelion" 216.96.15.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : Pu gong ying felt the soft brushing of rat : whiskers on its soft yellow pedals. : : I think we have been waiting for you, but : wasn’t aware of it until now. : : Greetings Rat, why do you appear before us : today? : : I’m here now because you are ready to : experience all this, with your Apophatic : nature. : : How do you know we are ready, old rat? : : Because, pu gong ying, you have forgotten : all, and live by nurturing the way. : : in peace, : gar : : : gar, : : Yeah, I think that is the gist of it. Until : we let go of even our concepts, or way of : seeing reality filtered through the darkened : lens of our conditioned thus limited : understanding we are not able to see the : light of day as it is. Let alone anything : else. : : The beginner's mind is no longer trying to : create reality. In this way reality can be : seen as it is. Zen is not a pragmatic : consideration, but a practical application. : In this sense Aaron in his decree that it : does not matter what we think nearly so much : as it matters what we do is spot on in my : opinion. : : ... speaking of rat I suppose there is a bit : of the old apophatic mysticism in my comings : and goings as well. Of course I am not as : good at negation as the old rat is but then : I am better looking. I am easier to look at : even when I can't be seen. What are you : looking at you preteritic voyeur you? : Tourist anyway. I digress. Again. That is I : like to say that existence is ineffable. : Beyond this or that. Beyond our best : attempts to label It, Her, Him, Whatever. : The eternal Tao. Or, hold on to your girdles : ladies and gentleman, God! : : I am bad. Somebody spank me. Where is Steve : when I need him? Upstart anyway. Speaking of : Lian Dao Nina must be pulling her hair out : by now. What goes around comes around I : always say purple hair in purple places. Now : I've gone esoteric. I am really in a bad : mood today. Or was it yesterday? Whatever it : was it came suddenly. : : Oh hell, I may as well go and say it. : Apophatic is the yin to the yang of : cataphatic. One being negation the other : being affirmation. So even though the : apophatic mystic reports that the unknowable : can only be known through what it is not : there is another side to the unitive sided : rhetorical arguments of the great mystics. : It is the negation of even our negations and : our positions, of the via negativa and the : positiva, that leads to the Great : Affirmation. The negation of our concepts : that leads to the Great Beyond that is both : far and near. We always create a dichotomy : when we point in one direction only. : : There are two paths that lead to the unitive : path. The eternal Tao has two sides. : : The above views are not necessarily the : views of the management of Tao Speaks. : : Butcho : : Greetings Butcho, : : You will have to excuse me, I'm a bit dizzy : from reading your words. Have you ever : turned into butter from all that churning? : : It seems rat's peace comes from his 'doubt' : reality. Where does your peace come from? : : P.S. It seems i'm "voyeuring" the : past, present, future, all at the same time. : : in peace, : gar : gar, Come to think of it I do go pretty good with popcorn. And other corn variations. Corn Candy. Guess I am just corny. My peace comes from the knowing that passeth understanding. At least mine anyway. Past and future are personal escape hatches in the ship of the eternal now. I think I will share some thoughts by Alan Watts on the nature of time. Butcho  Post a Response

The Sponge and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 8/13/2009, 7:23 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X The Sponge and the Dandelion With the new light of the day, pu gong ying gazed at the soft mass of sponge that gently accepted what Deer Creek brought to it. Greetings, sponge, please tell me who you are. Hello, pu gong ying, I seem to be one of the ten thousand things that come from heaven and earth. I am known for my power to absorb water and to become soft and pliable when wet without losing its toughness. But like all things I am influenced, and become part of, what Deer Creek sends me. It seems, as a sponge, I find (te) virtue in all things that the water brings me. When the water has nutrients I grow and flourish. And when polluted, I starve for oxygen and return to spores. So sometimes, sponge, you are brown because you are filled with muddy water and at other times you appear green with algae. But what is you true color? Ah, my friend dandelion, I am without color, and the color you see is what I’m influenced by. In peace, gar  Post a Response

The Dog and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 9/8/2009, 8:11 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X As the leaves started to change their color along the banks of Deer Creek, the dog laid down with pu gong ying. Greetings, dog, said pu gong ying, what brings you here today? I’m not sure, I been pulling on my rope that has had me tied up behind my master’s house and all of a sudden it came lose today. It looked so inviting here on the bank, I thought I’d just rest and be in my dog-ness for awhile. Well dog, I can see that you are a smart dog by the way your master has feed you. With your large weight your master must give you treats and extra food in return for your obedience. Yes, dandelion, because of my intelligence I’ve become the master’s best friend. But it seems I keep yearning to be free and to roam the forest by only following my dog-ness. What’s up with that? What you might be searching for, dog, is the forgotten wisdom of your dog-ness. When you hear the coyotes yelping at night do you not feel the desire to join the pack and hunt your own food? Do you feel the desire to be, one, with the pack? Maybe, all those things that you have learned to serve the master hides the wisdom of your dog-ness. I don’t know dandelion what is best, follow my dog wisdom or learn the tricks that make my life successful living with my master? A long time ago the old boys would fish along these banks and talk to one another about knowing the white but staying within the black. So it seems to me that, when we live within our essence and use the tool of knowledge, the path to awareness is illuminated by Tao. In peace, gar  Post a Response

Zen and the Dandelion Posted by gar on 10/18/2009, 5:35 am, in reply to "The old men and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X As the sun rose above the eastern mountains pu gong ying stood motionless. In the stillness of the moment, thought frozen in time, the frost lay heavy on pu gong ying. In the endless cycle of change the swing of nature transformed Deer Creek into the stillness of winter, where movement and time became one. The emptiness that is the space between time and movement gives birth to all things and propels the swing in its endless movement. peace is in the valley. in peace, gar  Post a Response

A Fall Day Posted by gar on 10/27/2009, 6:53 am, in reply to "Zen and the Dandelion" 70.100.197.X --Previous Message-- : : As the sun rose above the eastern mountains : pu gong ying stood motionless. In the : stillness of the moment, thought frozen in : time, the frost lay heavy on pu gong ying. : : In the endless cycle of change the swing of : nature transformed Deer Creek into the : stillness of winter, where movement and time : became one. : : The emptiness that is the space between time : and movement gives birth to all things and : propels the swing in its endless movement. : : peace is in the valley. : : : : in peace, : gar : Greetings all, While standing in the early morning woods watching my frosty breath, a life lesson started to reveal itself. Here in the high country the leaves of the hardwood trees have turned brown and are waiting for the wind to blow them off their branches. As i felt a slight breeze against my face i observed one leaf fall from a tree and begin a wonderful voyage of separateness. Because of circumstances the leaf was being lifted by the breeze and danced and floated with grace and ease as it eventually floated to the ground. What was once indistinguishable, one of many, the leaf became uniquely observable on its journey to the forest floor. When the leaf landed, a slight sound was heard that marked the end of the journey. There it was transformed back to the indistinguishable. A leaf is just a leaf but to an observer it can be separate, or whole. in peace, gar  Post a Response

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