Tao Speaks

Rising and Falling: a continuation

Posted by Bao Pu on 12/22/2008, 5:17 am
99.255.167.X

--Previous Message by Steve--
...
: First, I witness it in myself and
: others--the bits that are not useful or
: productive rising and falling away in their own time.
from: http://members.boardhost.com/Zentao00/msg/1229791696.html

: Hi Steve,
:
: Do you not witness things becoming habitual
: or people acquiring bad habits (that persist
: despite not being useful, or long after
: their usefulness has gone)?
: Bao Pu
from: http://members.boardhost.com/Zentao00/msg/1229873727.html

Steve: I'm not smart enough to know when habits are persisting beyond their time of usefulness. How could I know such a thing?

-- It's true that it is not often easy to tell when something is no longer useful. Like this conversation, for example. But I've found that most of the time, with a little introspection, I can. I suspect the same is true for everyone.

Steve: How can I know where the dividing line of useful and not useful is? What looks bad or ugly or not useful to me might, in fact, be quite useful in the scheme of things.

-- Yes, that's also something to keep in mind. But again, it's not impossible. For example, damaging a relationship by verbal or physical abuse can be identified as not useful or productive if one really wants to continue to enjoy the relationship.

Steve: I know when I'm unhappy though--and I know when others report being unhappy. Once unhappiness is recognized, the trajectory often changes. Sometimes for the better, but not always.

-- I've noticed that too. But perhaps more often the trajectory doesn't change unless some effort is put into it. Perhaps a poor example: I've noticed that I procrastinate too much and things don't get done that I want done and that stuff piles up. I've recognized this, but the habit has not changed. I suspect that it will take some "self-cultivation" to correct this, but I am still procrastinating that too ;-)

Steve: I cannot 'make' myself recognize unhappiness or un-usefulness in my life. Cultivation will not achieve that for me. Either the recognition happens, or it does not. Maybe cultivation works for others in that regard. I can't say. I suspect, though, that once you recognize the 'desirability' or usefulness of cultivation, you are already on a changed trajectory. U.G. Krishnamurti described the movement toward natural, uncontrived, living--if and when it occurs--as being 'acausal.' When it happens, it just happens. You cannot 'make' it happen. That sounds right to me.

-- So you know when you're unhappy but can't 'make yourself recognize' it. Well, without going into defining 'happiness' and 'usefulness,' I'd say that yes, we can often know if we're unhappy or doing something not useful or productive. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it's an intuitive feeling. There have been times where I've known that something was bothering me, but I wasn't exactly sure what is was (until later).

But I've also noticed there are things which are sources of unhappiness (and unhealthiness and disharmony) which are hard to detect unless one engages in some introspection (or perhaps meditation?). If one isn't inclined to look within, to engage in some introspection to achieve some self-knowledge, then they won't recognize these things. I suppose external circumstances might one day force someone to make that inward journey, or they may live in ignorance to the sources of their troubles till they die.

So, in a way I'm saying that anyone can make something happen by opening the doors to allow himself or herself to see it, just as there are things we can do to prevent ourselves from seeing/recognizing the sources of unhappiness, poor health and disharmony. Ideally, we'd all be very self-aware, but in my experience, this is not the case. Not without some 'effort,' at least in the beginning.

Good health,
Bao Pu