[ Tao Speaks ]

the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Lian Dao on 11/10/2008, 11:22 am 78.148.241.X i believe that it was Dean Martin who once said that he had never read a goddam book in his life and it had never done him any harm. Maybe not, but then again few of us here have had the pleasure of being close friends with Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davies Jnr. , and so the rest of us have to make do with the printed page. As Taoists, you have Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu to keep you company, and maybe some other classics over at the weekend, and as a poor Buddhist i merely have innumerable sutra's, commentaries and records of Dharma-teachers to keep me on the straight and narrow. However do you think that you would have arrived, for the want of a better word, to where you are today, if you had never read a goddam book in your life?  Post a Response

Re: the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Steve on 11/10/2008, 4:07 pm, in reply to "the metaphysical brat pack" 69.140.59.X : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? --------------------------- It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to the matter of how we know what (we think) we know. I see it this way: If you don't already sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn it from the printed page. What you sense is confirmed by the printed page, or not. The Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are particularly good at getting us to recognize (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we already know. Or so it seems.  Post a Response

More than one of us , but less than two. Posted by Butch on 11/11/2008, 8:16 am, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 162.39.191.X --Previous Message-- : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : --------------------------- : : It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to : the matter of how we know what (we think) we : know. : : I see it this way: If you don't already : sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn : it from the printed page. What you sense is : confirmed by the printed page, or not. The : Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are : particularly good at getting us to recognize : (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we : already know. : : Or so it seems. : : : Lian Dao, Existence is trying to get our attention any Way she can can. Kind of like shaking ourselves back awake right after we fall asleep. At first the body doesn't respond but if we keep at it we reunite with our body and so our body/mind complex wakes back up. So it is with our mystic heart, the whole of our being. There are methods for waking up those aspects of our being that are asleep. So some of us write books to ourselves and others. "Hey You, Wake Up" and other such titles are found at most bookstores these days. Personally, and this may an indictment of me but it is the truth, most of my best friends I have met in books. Alan Watts, well actually I met him a couple of times in Berkeley back in the 60's but I was just a snotnosed kid that was more interested in getting high and or laid than the nature of existence. Looking back I realize I was a prodigy, ok, an idiot-savant. I had my nature and that was good enough for me. But all beginnings come to an end and so it is with most if not all extremes. It was only a couple of years later that I read "The Book" and well, that and some Sandoz Samples and I have never been quite the same since. Can you tell? Don't answer that, it is a trick question. You fall into a rabbit hole if you answer it and I don't want that on Steve's conscience. He has enough to worry about what with Corky and his Summa Cum Lately Cult. Where was I, oh yeah, I read "The Book" while camped out in a tent for thirty days all alone in the mountains during the dead of Winter along the border of then West and East Germany, I was on a secret mission from God--yes I was, and haven't ever really quit reading books since. I have found that most people that write books are being sincere. I like sincere people. Especially those that go to all the trouble of writing a book. Serious I'm not so crazy about, but sincere resonates with me. If I were stuck on a desert island and could only have three books with me they would be.... boy this is a tuff one... "The Compleat Angler" by Izaak Walton. Not so much a book about how to catch fish as about how to be thankful that we may catch fish. ..."the very sitting by the river's side is...the quietest and fittest place for contemplation,". "The Compleat Angler" is not so much a book about how to fish as it is about how to be. Fishing cannot be taught by words but by practice. Ironically a second book might be Thomas Merton's "No Man is an Island". ..."what we are is to be sought in the invisible depths of our own being, not in our outward reflection in our own acts. We must find our real selves not in the froth stirred up by the impact of our being upon the beings around us, but in our own soul which is the principle of all our acts." No man is an island, he is a penninsula. Interfused, a part of that which has no parts. If we think about it existence is a conundrum. So maybe we shouldn't think about it so much. Moderation in all things, including moderation. "The whole mechanism of modern life is geared for a flight from God and from the spirit into the wilderness of neurosis. Even our monastaries are not free from the smell and clatter of our world." Amen. Admittedly a bit of a Fundamentalist and Continental, but still his words speak to my heart. Besides, which of us isn't to a degree the product of our environment. Let him that is without sin cast the first stone. A third book that might serve a person well on a desert island is "The Wisdom of Solitude", by Jane Dobisz. A student of Seung Sahn. ..."the cure for loneliness is solitude." A kind of modern Thoreau Jane tells about her experiences while living alone in a secluded cabin in the countryside of New England. ... "This is walking meditation. It's difficult not to be "on the way" somewhere while walking. Many meditation teachers say that during walking meditation you should take every step as though it were your first--or your last. That way you will appreciate each step. It's these small moments we take for granted, but these small moments are actually so important. They are the units that compose our life. Zen practice helps us to discover that everything we ever wanted is right here in front of us, if only we can slow down and recognize it." "The Great Way has no gate." How do you pass through? Zen Master Seung Sahn The journey is the destination. Chop wood, carry water. Butch  Post a Response

ontological freedom fighting Posted by Lian Dao on 11/12/2008, 9:51 am, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 89.241.129.X --Previous Message-- : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : --------------------------- : : It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to : the matter of how we know what (we think) we : know. : : I see it this way: If you don't already : sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn : it from the printed page. What you sense is : confirmed by the printed page, or not. The : Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are : particularly good at getting us to recognize : (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we : already know. : : Or so it seems. : : : You don't have to post the 'or so it seems' disclaimer with me old bean. Would you then suggest, with what you suggest above, that those that take a literal view of these ancient metaphysical texts, or depend upon anothers interpretation of these ancient metaphysical texts, are wrong? Wrong, in that, they have no self-knowledge of what is written in these ancient metaphysical texts?  Post a Response

ontological terrorism Posted by Lian Dao on 11/12/2008, 9:57 am, in reply to "More than one of us , but less than two." 89.241.129.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : --------------------------- : : It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to : the matter of how we know what (we think) we : know. : : I see it this way: If you don't already : sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn : it from the printed page. What you sense is : confirmed by the printed page, or not. The : Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are : particularly good at getting us to recognize : (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we : already know. : : Or so it seems. : : : : Lian Dao, : : Existence is trying to get our attention any : Way she can can. Kind of like shaking : ourselves back awake right after we fall : asleep. At first the body doesn't respond : but if we keep at it we reunite with our : body and so our body/mind complex wakes back : up. So it is with our mystic heart, the : whole of our being. There are methods for : waking up those aspects of our being that : are asleep. So some of us write books to : ourselves and others. "Hey You, Wake : Up" and other such titles are found at : most bookstores these days. : : Personally, and this may an indictment of me : but it is the truth, most of my best friends : I have met in books. Alan Watts, well : actually I met him a couple of times in : Berkeley back in the 60's but I was just a : snotnosed kid that was more interested in : getting high and or laid than the nature of : existence. Looking back I realize I was a : prodigy, ok, an idiot-savant. I had my : nature and that was good enough for me. But : all beginnings come to an end and so it is : with most if not all extremes. It was only a : couple of years later that I read "The : Book" and well, that and some Sandoz : Samples and I have never been quite the same : since. Can you tell? Don't answer that, it : is a trick question. You fall into a rabbit : hole if you answer it and I don't want that : on Steve's conscience. He has enough to : worry about what with Corky and his Summa : Cum Lately Cult. : : Where was I, oh yeah, I read "The : Book" while camped out in a tent for : thirty days all alone in the mountains : during the dead of Winter along the border : of then West and East Germany, I was on a : secret mission from God--yes I was, and : haven't ever really quit reading books : since. I have found that most people that : write books are being sincere. I like : sincere people. Especially those that go to : all the trouble of writing a book. Serious : I'm not so crazy about, but sincere : resonates with me. : : If I were stuck on a desert island and could : only have three books with me they would : be.... boy this is a tuff one... : : "The Compleat Angler" by Izaak : Walton. Not so much a book about how to : catch fish as about how to be thankful that : we may catch fish. ..."the very : sitting by the river's side is...the : quietest and fittest place for : contemplation,". "The Compleat : Angler" is not so much a book about how : to fish as it is about how to be. : : Fishing cannot be taught by words but by : practice. : : Ironically a second book might be Thomas : Merton's "No Man is an Island". : ..."what we are is to be sought in the : invisible depths of our own being, not in : our outward reflection in our own acts. We : must find our real selves not in the froth : stirred up by the impact of our being upon : the beings around us, but in our own soul : which is the principle of all our : acts." : : No man is an island, he is a penninsula. : Interfused, a part of that which has no : parts. If we think about it existence is a : conundrum. So maybe we shouldn't think about : it so much. Moderation in all things, : including moderation. "The whole : mechanism of modern life is geared for a : flight from God and from the spirit into the : wilderness of neurosis. Even our monastaries : are not free from the smell and clatter of : our world." Amen. : : Admittedly a bit of a Fundamentalist and : Continental, but still his words speak to my : heart. Besides, which of us isn't to a : degree the product of our environment. Let : him that is without sin cast the first : stone. : : A third book that might serve a person well : on a desert island is "The Wisdom of : Solitude", by Jane Dobisz. A student of : Seung Sahn. ..."the cure for loneliness : is solitude." A kind of modern Thoreau : Jane tells about her experiences while : living alone in a secluded cabin in the : countryside of New England. ... "This : is walking meditation. It's difficult not to : be "on the way" somewhere while : walking. Many meditation teachers say that : during walking meditation you should take : every step as though it were your first--or : your last. That way you will appreciate each : step. It's these small moments we take for : granted, but these small moments are : actually so important. They are the units : that compose our life. Zen practice helps us : to discover that everything we ever wanted : is right here in front of us, if only we can : slow down and recognize it." : : "The Great Way has no gate." : How do you pass through? Zen Master Seung : Sahn : : The journey is the destination. Chop wood, : carry water. : You don't have to post the 'chop wood, carry water' disclaimer with me, old bean. Do you think that you would have arrived at your journey with or without the help of the written word?  Post a Response

Re: ontological freedom fighting Posted by Steve on 11/12/2008, 11:02 am, in reply to "ontological freedom fighting" 69.140.59.X : Would you then suggest, with what you : suggest above, that those that take a : literal view of these ancient metaphysical : texts, or depend upon anothers : interpretation of these ancient metaphysical : texts, are wrong? Wrong, in that, they have : no self-knowledge of what is written in : these ancient metaphysical texts? ------------------------- Another great, and difficult, question. The Really Really Wise Ones suggest that there are infinite depths, or degrees, of 'getting it.' I may think I 'get it,' whether I sense it directly or trust in what someone else tells me, but I may be off track. Or maybe I get it, but only partially. Or maybe I don't get it at all. Regardless, I have faith that there is no fundamental problem in the universe, and that all is well. That I am safe. So, I don't lose sleep at night fretting over where I am at the moment on the Great Cosmic 'With-it' Scale. Do you?  Post a Response

Re: ontological freedom fighting Posted by Lian Dao on 11/13/2008, 4:12 am, in reply to "Re: ontological freedom fighting" 78.150.172.X --Previous Message-- : Would you then suggest, with what you : suggest above, that those that take a : literal view of these ancient metaphysical : texts, or depend upon anothers : interpretation of these ancient metaphysical : texts, are wrong? Wrong, in that, they have : no self-knowledge of what is written in : these ancient metaphysical texts? : : ------------------------- : : Another great, and difficult, question. : : The Really Really Wise Ones suggest that : there are infinite depths, or degrees, of : 'getting it.' I may think I 'get it,' : whether I sense it directly or trust in what : someone else tells me, but I may be off : track. Or maybe I get it, but only : partially. Or maybe I don't get it at all. : : Regardless, I have faith that there is no : fundamental problem in the universe, and : that all is well. That I am safe. : : So, I don't lose sleep at night fretting : over where I am at the moment on the Great : Cosmic 'With-it' Scale. : : Do you? : : : : : Do i what? Do i 'get it' or do i not lose any sleep at night worrying over whether i do 'get it' or not? In any case the answer to both would be, nah not really.  Post a Response

selective post syndrome Posted by Lian Dao on 11/13/2008, 4:13 am, in reply to "ontological terrorism" 78.150.172.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : --------------------------- : : It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to : the matter of how we know what (we think) we : know. : : I see it this way: If you don't already : sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn : it from the printed page. What you sense is : confirmed by the printed page, or not. The : Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are : particularly good at getting us to recognize : (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we : already know. : : Or so it seems. : : : : Lian Dao, : : Existence is trying to get our attention any : Way she can can. Kind of like shaking : ourselves back awake right after we fall : asleep. At first the body doesn't respond : but if we keep at it we reunite with our : body and so our body/mind complex wakes back : up. So it is with our mystic heart, the : whole of our being. There are methods for : waking up those aspects of our being that : are asleep. So some of us write books to : ourselves and others. "Hey You, Wake : Up" and other such titles are found at : most bookstores these days. : : Personally, and this may an indictment of me : but it is the truth, most of my best friends : I have met in books. Alan Watts, well : actually I met him a couple of times in : Berkeley back in the 60's but I was just a : snotnosed kid that was more interested in : getting high and or laid than the nature of : existence. Looking back I realize I was a : prodigy, ok, an idiot-savant. I had my : nature and that was good enough for me. But : all beginnings come to an end and so it is : with most if not all extremes. It was only a : couple of years later that I read "The : Book" and well, that and some Sandoz : Samples and I have never been quite the same : since. Can you tell? Don't answer that, it : is a trick question. You fall into a rabbit : hole if you answer it and I don't want that : on Steve's conscience. He has enough to : worry about what with Corky and his Summa : Cum Lately Cult. : : Where was I, oh yeah, I read "The : Book" while camped out in a tent for : thirty days all alone in the mountains : during the dead of Winter along the border : of then West and East Germany, I was on a : secret mission from God--yes I was, and : haven't ever really quit reading books : since. I have found that most people that : write books are being sincere. I like : sincere people. Especially those that go to : all the trouble of writing a book. Serious : I'm not so crazy about, but sincere : resonates with me. : : If I were stuck on a desert island and could : only have three books with me they would : be.... boy this is a tuff one... : : "The Compleat Angler" by Izaak : Walton. Not so much a book about how to : catch fish as about how to be thankful that : we may catch fish. ..."the very : sitting by the river's side is...the : quietest and fittest place for : contemplation,". "The Compleat : Angler" is not so much a book about how : to fish as it is about how to be. : : Fishing cannot be taught by words but by : practice. : : Ironically a second book might be Thomas : Merton's "No Man is an Island". : ..."what we are is to be sought in the : invisible depths of our own being, not in : our outward reflection in our own acts. We : must find our real selves not in the froth : stirred up by the impact of our being upon : the beings around us, but in our own soul : which is the principle of all our : acts." : : No man is an island, he is a penninsula. : Interfused, a part of that which has no : parts. If we think about it existence is a : conundrum. So maybe we shouldn't think about : it so much. Moderation in all things, : including moderation. "The whole : mechanism of modern life is geared for a : flight from God and from the spirit into the : wilderness of neurosis. Even our monastaries : are not free from the smell and clatter of : our world." Amen. : : Admittedly a bit of a Fundamentalist and : Continental, but still his words speak to my : heart. Besides, which of us isn't to a : degree the product of our environment. Let : him that is without sin cast the first : stone. : : A third book that might serve a person well : on a desert island is "The Wisdom of : Solitude", by Jane Dobisz. A student of : Seung Sahn. ..."the cure for loneliness : is solitude." A kind of modern Thoreau : Jane tells about her experiences while : living alone in a secluded cabin in the : countryside of New England. ... "This : is walking meditation. It's difficult not to : be "on the way" somewhere while : walking. Many meditation teachers say that : during walking meditation you should take : every step as though it were your first--or : your last. That way you will appreciate each : step. It's these small moments we take for : granted, but these small moments are : actually so important. They are the units : that compose our life. Zen practice helps us : to discover that everything we ever wanted : is right here in front of us, if only we can : slow down and recognize it." : : "The Great Way has no gate." : How do you pass through? Zen Master Seung : Sahn : : The journey is the destination. Chop wood, : carry water. : : : : You don't have to post the 'chop wood, carry : water' disclaimer with me, old bean. : : Do you think that you would have arrived at : your journey with or without the help of the : written word? : Ok Butch, i'm gonna put you down as a definately maybe.  Post a Response

Re: ontological terrorism Posted by Butch on 11/13/2008, 8:20 am, in reply to "ontological terrorism" 162.40.48.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : --------------------------- : : It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to : the matter of how we know what (we think) we : know. : : I see it this way: If you don't already : sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn : it from the printed page. What you sense is : confirmed by the printed page, or not. The : Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are : particularly good at getting us to recognize : (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we : already know. : : Or so it seems. : : : : Lian Dao, : : Existence is trying to get our attention any : Way she can can. Kind of like shaking : ourselves back awake right after we fall : asleep. At first the body doesn't respond : but if we keep at it we reunite with our : body and so our body/mind complex wakes back : up. So it is with our mystic heart, the : whole of our being. There are methods for : waking up those aspects of our being that : are asleep. So some of us write books to : ourselves and others. "Hey You, Wake : Up" and other such titles are found at : most bookstores these days. : : Personally, and this may an indictment of me : but it is the truth, most of my best friends : I have met in books. Alan Watts, well : actually I met him a couple of times in : Berkeley back in the 60's but I was just a : snotnosed kid that was more interested in : getting high and or laid than the nature of : existence. Looking back I realize I was a : prodigy, ok, an idiot-savant. I had my : nature and that was good enough for me. But : all beginnings come to an end and so it is : with most if not all extremes. It was only a : couple of years later that I read "The : Book" and well, that and some Sandoz : Samples and I have never been quite the same : since. Can you tell? Don't answer that, it : is a trick question. You fall into a rabbit : hole if you answer it and I don't want that : on Steve's conscience. He has enough to : worry about what with Corky and his Summa : Cum Lately Cult. : : Where was I, oh yeah, I read "The : Book" while camped out in a tent for : thirty days all alone in the mountains : during the dead of Winter along the border : of then West and East Germany, I was on a : secret mission from God--yes I was, and : haven't ever really quit reading books : since. I have found that most people that : write books are being sincere. I like : sincere people. Especially those that go to : all the trouble of writing a book. Serious : I'm not so crazy about, but sincere : resonates with me. : : If I were stuck on a desert island and could : only have three books with me they would : be.... boy this is a tuff one... : : "The Compleat Angler" by Izaak : Walton. Not so much a book about how to : catch fish as about how to be thankful that : we may catch fish. ..."the very : sitting by the river's side is...the : quietest and fittest place for : contemplation,". "The Compleat : Angler" is not so much a book about how : to fish as it is about how to be. : : Fishing cannot be taught by words but by : practice. : : Ironically a second book might be Thomas : Merton's "No Man is an Island". : ..."what we are is to be sought in the : invisible depths of our own being, not in : our outward reflection in our own acts. We : must find our real selves not in the froth : stirred up by the impact of our being upon : the beings around us, but in our own soul : which is the principle of all our : acts." : : No man is an island, he is a penninsula. : Interfused, a part of that which has no : parts. If we think about it existence is a : conundrum. So maybe we shouldn't think about : it so much. Moderation in all things, : including moderation. "The whole : mechanism of modern life is geared for a : flight from God and from the spirit into the : wilderness of neurosis. Even our monastaries : are not free from the smell and clatter of : our world." Amen. : : Admittedly a bit of a Fundamentalist and : Continental, but still his words speak to my : heart. Besides, which of us isn't to a : degree the product of our environment. Let : him that is without sin cast the first : stone. : : A third book that might serve a person well : on a desert island is "The Wisdom of : Solitude", by Jane Dobisz. A student of : Seung Sahn. ..."the cure for loneliness : is solitude." A kind of modern Thoreau : Jane tells about her experiences while : living alone in a secluded cabin in the : countryside of New England. ... "This : is walking meditation. It's difficult not to : be "on the way" somewhere while : walking. Many meditation teachers say that : during walking meditation you should take : every step as though it were your first--or : your last. That way you will appreciate each : step. It's these small moments we take for : granted, but these small moments are : actually so important. They are the units : that compose our life. Zen practice helps us : to discover that everything we ever wanted : is right here in front of us, if only we can : slow down and recognize it." : : "The Great Way has no gate." : How do you pass through? Zen Master Seung : Sahn : : The journey is the destination. Chop wood, : carry water. : : : : You don't have to post the 'chop wood, carry : water' disclaimer with me, old bean. : : Do you think that you would have arrived at : your journey with or without the help of the : written word? : Lian Dao, You are not the only one that reads our posts. chop wood, carry water. All I know is what I feel. Butch  Post a Response

Stinky & Snit, Posted by Butch on 11/13/2008, 8:25 am, in reply to "Re: ontological freedom fighting" 162.40.48.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Would you then suggest, with what you : suggest above, that those that take a : literal view of these ancient metaphysical : texts, or depend upon anothers : interpretation of these ancient metaphysical : texts, are wrong? Wrong, in that, they have : no self-knowledge of what is written in : these ancient metaphysical texts? : : ------------------------- : : Another great, and difficult, question. : : The Really Really Wise Ones suggest that : there are infinite depths, or degrees, of : 'getting it.' I may think I 'get it,' : whether I sense it directly or trust in what : someone else tells me, but I may be off : track. Or maybe I get it, but only : partially. Or maybe I don't get it at all. : : Regardless, I have faith that there is no : fundamental problem in the universe, and : that all is well. That I am safe. : : So, I don't lose sleep at night fretting : over where I am at the moment on the Great : Cosmic 'With-it' Scale. : : Do you? : : : : : : : Do i what? : : Do i 'get it' or do i not lose any sleep at : night worrying over whether i do 'get it' or : not? : : In any case the answer to both would be, nah : not really. : : :  Post a Response

we are not amused - Queen Victoria Posted by Lian Dao on 11/13/2008, 9:29 am, in reply to "Re: ontological terrorism" 78.144.223.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : --------------------------- : : It's a good question, Lian Dao, and gets to : the matter of how we know what (we think) we : know. : : I see it this way: If you don't already : sense the metaphysical shit, you won't learn : it from the printed page. What you sense is : confirmed by the printed page, or not. The : Really Really Wise Ancient Dead Ones are : particularly good at getting us to recognize : (or 'recall,' as Butch might say) what we : already know. : : Or so it seems. : : : : Lian Dao, : : Existence is trying to get our attention any : Way she can can. Kind of like shaking : ourselves back awake right after we fall : asleep. At first the body doesn't respond : but if we keep at it we reunite with our : body and so our body/mind complex wakes back : up. So it is with our mystic heart, the : whole of our being. There are methods for : waking up those aspects of our being that : are asleep. So some of us write books to : ourselves and others. "Hey You, Wake : Up" and other such titles are found at : most bookstores these days. : : Personally, and this may an indictment of me : but it is the truth, most of my best friends : I have met in books. Alan Watts, well : actually I met him a couple of times in : Berkeley back in the 60's but I was just a : snotnosed kid that was more interested in : getting high and or laid than the nature of : existence. Looking back I realize I was a : prodigy, ok, an idiot-savant. I had my : nature and that was good enough for me. But : all beginnings come to an end and so it is : with most if not all extremes. It was only a : couple of years later that I read "The : Book" and well, that and some Sandoz : Samples and I have never been quite the same : since. Can you tell? Don't answer that, it : is a trick question. You fall into a rabbit : hole if you answer it and I don't want that : on Steve's conscience. He has enough to : worry about what with Corky and his Summa : Cum Lately Cult. : : Where was I, oh yeah, I read "The : Book" while camped out in a tent for : thirty days all alone in the mountains : during the dead of Winter along the border : of then West and East Germany, I was on a : secret mission from God--yes I was, and : haven't ever really quit reading books : since. I have found that most people that : write books are being sincere. I like : sincere people. Especially those that go to : all the trouble of writing a book. Serious : I'm not so crazy about, but sincere : resonates with me. : : If I were stuck on a desert island and could : only have three books with me they would : be.... boy this is a tuff one... : : "The Compleat Angler" by Izaak : Walton. Not so much a book about how to : catch fish as about how to be thankful that : we may catch fish. ..."the very : sitting by the river's side is...the : quietest and fittest place for : contemplation,". "The Compleat : Angler" is not so much a book about how : to fish as it is about how to be. : : Fishing cannot be taught by words but by : practice. : : Ironically a second book might be Thomas : Merton's "No Man is an Island". : ..."what we are is to be sought in the : invisible depths of our own being, not in : our outward reflection in our own acts. We : must find our real selves not in the froth : stirred up by the impact of our being upon : the beings around us, but in our own soul : which is the principle of all our : acts." : : No man is an island, he is a penninsula. : Interfused, a part of that which has no : parts. If we think about it existence is a : conundrum. So maybe we shouldn't think about : it so much. Moderation in all things, : including moderation. "The whole : mechanism of modern life is geared for a : flight from God and from the spirit into the : wilderness of neurosis. Even our monastaries : are not free from the smell and clatter of : our world." Amen. : : Admittedly a bit of a Fundamentalist and : Continental, but still his words speak to my : heart. Besides, which of us isn't to a : degree the product of our environment. Let : him that is without sin cast the first : stone. : : A third book that might serve a person well : on a desert island is "The Wisdom of : Solitude", by Jane Dobisz. A student of : Seung Sahn. ..."the cure for loneliness : is solitude." A kind of modern Thoreau : Jane tells about her experiences while : living alone in a secluded cabin in the : countryside of New England. ... "This : is walking meditation. It's difficult not to : be "on the way" somewhere while : walking. Many meditation teachers say that : during walking meditation you should take : every step as though it were your first--or : your last. That way you will appreciate each : step. It's these small moments we take for : granted, but these small moments are : actually so important. They are the units : that compose our life. Zen practice helps us : to discover that everything we ever wanted : is right here in front of us, if only we can : slow down and recognize it." : : "The Great Way has no gate." : How do you pass through? Zen Master Seung : Sahn : : The journey is the destination. Chop wood, : carry water. : : : : You don't have to post the 'chop wood, carry : water' disclaimer with me, old bean. : : Do you think that you would have arrived at : your journey with or without the help of the : written word? : : Lian Dao, : : You are not the only one that reads our : posts. : : chop wood, carry water. : : All I know is what I feel. : Butch, 'our posts'???? Would that be 'our' as in the Royal 'we'?  Post a Response

Re: Stinky & Snit, and Butch makes three Posted by Lian Dao on 11/13/2008, 9:30 am, in reply to "Stinky & Snit," 78.144.223.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Would you then suggest, with what you : suggest above, that those that take a : literal view of these ancient metaphysical : texts, or depend upon anothers : interpretation of these ancient metaphysical : texts, are wrong? Wrong, in that, they have : no self-knowledge of what is written in : these ancient metaphysical texts? : : ------------------------- : : Another great, and difficult, question. : : The Really Really Wise Ones suggest that : there are infinite depths, or degrees, of : 'getting it.' I may think I 'get it,' : whether I sense it directly or trust in what : someone else tells me, but I may be off : track. Or maybe I get it, but only : partially. Or maybe I don't get it at all. : : Regardless, I have faith that there is no : fundamental problem in the universe, and : that all is well. That I am safe. : : So, I don't lose sleep at night fretting : over where I am at the moment on the Great : Cosmic 'With-it' Scale. : : Do you? : : : : : : : Do i what? : : Do i 'get it' or do i not lose any sleep at : night worrying over whether i do 'get it' or : not? : : In any case the answer to both would be, nah : not really. : : : : :  Post a Response

Re: the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Nina on 11/13/2008, 7:47 pm, in reply to "the metaphysical brat pack" 71.106.26.X --Previous Message-- : i believe that it was Dean Martin who once : said that he had never read a goddam book in : his life and it had never done him any harm. : : Maybe not, but then again few of us here : have had the pleasure of being close friends : with Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davies Jnr. , : and so the rest of us have to make do with : the printed page. : : As Taoists, you have Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu : to keep you company, and maybe some other : classics over at the weekend, and as a poor : Buddhist i merely have innumerable sutra's, : commentaries and records of Dharma-teachers : to keep me on the straight and narrow. : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : I think I arrived at where I am today when I was about 8 years old. Plop! The thing that pissed me off most was when teachers told me I had to find "their" message in the books I read. Not nice. Fortunately, I didn't listen to them, and still listen to my own heart most of the time. The thing that maybe helped me the most when I found Laozi and Zhuangzi was....... they suggested it was okay to not put much stock in the concepts of others. Did that make me who I am? Nope. But it's nice to find someone in this screwed up world who isn't trying to make me see things the way they do. Is that what you get out of the sutras, LianDao? -Nina  Post a Response

Re: the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Lian Dao on 11/14/2008, 1:49 am, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 78.149.50.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : i believe that it was Dean Martin who once : said that he had never read a goddam book in : his life and it had never done him any harm. : : Maybe not, but then again few of us here : have had the pleasure of being close friends : with Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davies Jnr. , : and so the rest of us have to make do with : the printed page. : : As Taoists, you have Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu : to keep you company, and maybe some other : classics over at the weekend, and as a poor : Buddhist i merely have innumerable sutra's, : commentaries and records of Dharma-teachers : to keep me on the straight and narrow. : However do you think that you would have : arrived, for the want of a better word, to : where you are today, if you had never read a : goddam book in your life? : : : : I think I arrived at where I am today when I : was about 8 years old. Plop! : : The thing that pissed me off most was when : teachers told me I had to find : "their" message in the books I : read. Not nice. Fortunately, I didn't : listen to them, and still listen to my own : heart most of the time. : : The thing that maybe helped me the most when : I found Laozi and Zhuangzi was....... they : suggested it was okay to not put much stock : in the concepts of others. Did that make me : who I am? Nope. But it's nice to find : someone in this screwed up world who isn't : trying to make me see things the way they : do. : : Is that what you get out of the sutras, : LianDao? : At the risk of upsetting the apple-cart, no, not really, but in my defence, i didn't go to the Sutra's with that in mind anyway. i know that that won't sit well with you Nina, and for that i apologise.  Post a Response

Re: the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Nina on 11/14/2008, 9:50 am, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 71.106.8.X : At the risk of upsetting the apple-cart, no, : not really, but in my defence, i didn't go : to the Sutra's with that in mind anyway. : : i know that that won't sit well with you : Nina, and for that i apologise. : Whatever you choose to do sits just fine with me, Lian Dao. If it ain't broke, don't fix it? :-) -Nina  Post a Response

Re: the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Lian Dao on 11/14/2008, 12:13 pm, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 78.148.168.X --Previous Message-- : : At the risk of upsetting the apple-cart, no, : not really, but in my defence, i didn't go : to the Sutra's with that in mind anyway. : : i know that that won't sit well with you : Nina, and for that i apologise. : : : : Whatever you choose to do sits just fine : with me, Lian Dao. : : If it ain't broke, don't fix it? :-) : Indeed. And if it's broke?  Post a Response

Re: the metaphysical brat pack Posted by Nina on 11/14/2008, 7:06 pm, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 71.106.25.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : At the risk of upsetting the apple-cart, no, : not really, but in my defence, i didn't go : to the Sutra's with that in mind anyway. : : i know that that won't sit well with you : Nina, and for that i apologise. : : : : Whatever you choose to do sits just fine : with me, Lian Dao. : : If it ain't broke, don't fix it? :-) : : : : Indeed. : : : And if it's broke? : : Choices, choices, choices. If it's broke, is it of no further use to you?  Post a Response

early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad Posted by Lian Dao on 11/15/2008, 9:29 am, in reply to "Re: the metaphysical brat pack" 78.148.232.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : At the risk of upsetting the apple-cart, no, : not really, but in my defence, i didn't go : to the Sutra's with that in mind anyway. : : i know that that won't sit well with you : Nina, and for that i apologise. : : : : Whatever you choose to do sits just fine : with me, Lian Dao. : : If it ain't broke, don't fix it? :-) : : : : Indeed. : : : And if it's broke? : : : : Choices, choices, choices. : : If it's broke, is it of no further use to : you? : : : : That would entirely depend my dear, upon what criteria i put in place to help me decide as to whether said 'it' is either; a. broke b. able to be fixed c. i am able to decide between a. or b. d. none of the above e. all of the above f. it may be of use to another g. it may be of no use to another h. another may be able to fix it i. i am in a position to decide whether said other is able to fix it. j. i can remember the rest of the alphabet  Post a Response

Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad Posted by Nina on 11/15/2008, 8:02 pm, in reply to "early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad" 71.105.68.X : That would entirely depend my dear, upon : what criteria i put in place to help me : decide as to whether said 'it' is either; : : a. broke : : b. able to be fixed : : c. i am able to decide between a. or b. : : d. none of the above : : e. all of the above : : f. it may be of use to another : : g. it may be of no use to another : : h. another may be able to fix it : : i. i am in a position to decide whether said : other is able to fix it. : : j. i can remember the rest of the alphabet : I like your style. :-) You just gotta be careful though - of holding on to too much junk that you think might be of use some day. k. If you haven't found a use for it in 1 year, get rid of it. (Unless you NEED it, of course.) -Nina  Post a Response

Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad Posted by Lian Dao on 11/15/2008, 11:33 pm, in reply to "Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad" 78.148.8.X --Previous Message-- : : That would entirely depend my dear, upon : what criteria i put in place to help me : decide as to whether said 'it' is either; : : a. broke : : b. able to be fixed : : c. i am able to decide between a. or b. : : d. none of the above : : e. all of the above : : f. it may be of use to another : : g. it may be of no use to another : : h. another may be able to fix it : : i. i am in a position to decide whether said : other is able to fix it. : : j. i can remember the rest of the alphabet : : : I like your style. :-) : : You just gotta be careful though - of : holding on to too much junk that you think : might be of use some day. : : k. If you haven't found a use for it in 1 : year, get rid of it. (Unless you NEED it, : of course.) : l. arrive at a position whereby you will be in a position to decide as to whether you may need it or not in twelve months time. m. annnnd...relax.  Post a Response

Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad Posted by Nina on 11/16/2008, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad" 71.106.28.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : That would entirely depend my dear, upon : what criteria i put in place to help me : decide as to whether said 'it' is either; : : a. broke : : b. able to be fixed : : c. i am able to decide between a. or b. : : d. none of the above : : e. all of the above : : f. it may be of use to another : : g. it may be of no use to another : : h. another may be able to fix it : : i. i am in a position to decide whether said : other is able to fix it. : : j. i can remember the rest of the alphabet : : : I like your style. :-) : : You just gotta be careful though - of : holding on to too much junk that you think : might be of use some day. : : k. If you haven't found a use for it in 1 : year, get rid of it. (Unless you NEED it, : of course.) : : : l. arrive at a position whereby you will be : in a position to decide as to whether you : may need it or not in twelve months time. : : m. annnnd...relax. : : n. Figure out whether keeping it is causing you more harm than good. Did you know...... people actually keep old tires in their back yards here - don't know why. They collect rain water and become a breeding ground for.... mosquitoes! Do you have mosquitoes in the U.K.?  Post a Response

Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad Posted by Lian Dao on 11/17/2008, 2:38 am, in reply to "Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad" 89.242.142.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : That would entirely depend my dear, upon : what criteria i put in place to help me : decide as to whether said 'it' is either; : : a. broke : : b. able to be fixed : : c. i am able to decide between a. or b. : : d. none of the above : : e. all of the above : : f. it may be of use to another : : g. it may be of no use to another : : h. another may be able to fix it : : i. i am in a position to decide whether said : other is able to fix it. : : j. i can remember the rest of the alphabet : : : I like your style. :-) : : You just gotta be careful though - of : holding on to too much junk that you think : might be of use some day. : : k. If you haven't found a use for it in 1 : year, get rid of it. (Unless you NEED it, : of course.) : : : l. arrive at a position whereby you will be : in a position to decide as to whether you : may need it or not in twelve months time. : : m. annnnd...relax. : : : : n. Figure out whether keeping it is causing : you more harm than good. : : Did you know...... people actually keep old : tires in their back yards here - don't know : why. They collect rain water and become a : breeding ground for.... mosquitoes! Do you : have mosquitoes in the U.K.? : : : o. Give it away. Yes we do have mozzies here in Albion. Mainly during the Summer which is usually two days around the end of July. All those tyres (Correct spelling) can't be very heplful with the wildfires? Unless that's why they're filled with water?  Post a Response

Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad Posted by Nina on 11/17/2008, 6:35 pm, in reply to "Re: early Columbo's good/later Columbo's bad" 71.106.29.X --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : That would entirely depend my dear, upon : what criteria i put in place to help me : decide as to whether said 'it' is either; : : a. broke : : b. able to be fixed : : c. i am able to decide between a. or b. : : d. none of the above : : e. all of the above : : f. it may be of use to another : : g. it may be of no use to another : : h. another may be able to fix it : : i. i am in a position to decide whether said : other is able to fix it. : : j. i can remember the rest of the alphabet : : : I like your style. :-) : : You just gotta be careful though - of : holding on to too much junk that you think : might be of use some day. : : k. If you haven't found a use for it in 1 : year, get rid of it. (Unless you NEED it, : of course.) : : : l. arrive at a position whereby you will be : in a position to decide as to whether you : may need it or not in twelve months time. : : m. annnnd...relax. : : : : n. Figure out whether keeping it is causing : you more harm than good. : : Did you know...... people actually keep old : tires in their back yards here - don't know : why. They collect rain water and become a : breeding ground for.... mosquitoes! Do you : have mosquitoes in the U.K.? : : : : : o. Give it away. : : Yes we do have mozzies here in Albion. : Mainly during the Summer which is usually : two days around the end of July. : : All those tyres (Correct spelling) can't be : very heplful with the wildfires? Unless : that's why they're filled with water? : p. Burn it. (I was tempted to say piss on it - for "p".) People here buy multi-million dollar homes with hills covered by dead sagebrush just a few feet away - then get upset when it catches on fire. No, those people don't keep old tyres in their back yards. Do you have many wildfyres in Albion?  Post a Response

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