Tao Speaks: Re: Between Worth and Worthless

Re: Between Worth and Worthless

Posted by josef on 5/15/2011, 2:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Between Worth and Worthless"
24.32.223.x

--Previous Message--

: To want to be free from one's desires is
: itself a desire, and as such an infinite
: regression.
:
: What I want is not to have my desires beat
: me up, or beat up anyone else for that
: matter. Moderation in all things, including
: moderation.
:
: I do not want to separate myself from any
: part of myself for such separation is more
: problematic than any aspect of my being.
:
: When a person takes a position that is
: against a natural aspect of his or her being
: an un-natural aspect often arises.
:
: What I would like to be separate from is the
: notion that I am separate from anything that
: I experience.
:
: ButchO

Hi ButchO and gar,

This business of being desireless is intriguing and subtle. It's the nature of our conditioning that we are thus primed to desire things and people to be a certain way, to have certain things, to prefer this over that, to possess and control. Buddha himself, and Buddhist and Taoist teachers speak of desirelessness, yes, but I don't think they're referring to the simple desires, wanting to make love or wanting an extra piece of toast.

It the pervasive, habitual psychological state of desiring,writ by our conditioning, that they refer to, imo. In a constant state of magnetizing what we want & repelling what we don't, there reigns an ongoing *resistance* to what-is, to reality, now, and an tension that is *attachment* to our own opinions, tastes and desired outcomes. This feeds a steady discontent and preoccupation with how things, people & circumstances fall short of how we think they *should* be, do, or happen, and leads directly to involvement in *contriving* to change people and situations to suit our desires.

The answer the sages give to this Desire is non-attachment, seeing things and people as they are without constantly measuring them against how we'd rather they be. There's peace in that.

Non-resistance and non-attachment allude to the gentle letting go of compulsive, habitual desire that clouds our perceptions and acceptance of reality; non-contrivance is the letting go of trying to make everything and everyone as we desire them to be.

Non-resisting, non-attached non-contriving, we are genuine, open, and free to be "flexible, elusive, unpredictable and take harmony for our measure".

So it seems to me,

josef

143

Message Thread

Between Worth and Worthless - gar 5/14/2011, 5:41 am
- Re: Between Worth and Worthless - ButchO 5/14/2011, 11:00 pm
  - Going with the flow - gar 5/15/2011, 5:30 am
  - Re: Between Worth and Worthless - josef 5/15/2011, 2:10 pm
    - Re: Between Worth and Worthless - gar 5/15/2011, 2:41 pm
      - Re: Between Worth and Worthless - ButchO 5/15/2011, 10:35 pm
        
        Re: Between Worth and Worthless - josef 5/16/2011, 10:08 pm
        
        Re: Between Worth and Worthless - ButchO 5/17/2011, 8:15 am
        
        Re: Between Worth and Worthless - josef 5/17/2011, 12:15 pm
      - On Desirelessness - josef 5/17/2011, 12:18 pm
        
        Re: On Desirelessness - gar 5/17/2011, 12:40 pm
        
        Re: On Desirelessness - josef 5/17/2011, 1:58 pm
        
        Re: On Desirelessness - ButchO 5/17/2011, 10:52 pm
- Re: Between Worth and Worthless - Wayne L 5/17/2011, 10:44 am
  - Re: Between Worth and Worthless - ButchO 5/17/2011, 10:58 pm
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--Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : : To want to be free from one's desires is : itself a desire, and as such an infinite : regression. : : What I want is not to have my desires beat : me up, or beat up anyone else for that : matter. Moderation in all things, including : moderation. : : I do not want to separate myself from any : part of myself for such separation is more : problematic than any aspect of my being. : : When a person takes a position that is : against a natural aspect of his or her being : an un-natural aspect often arises. : : What I would like to be separate from is the : notion that I am separate from anything that : I experience. : : ButchO : : Hi ButchO and gar, : : This business of being desireless is : intriguing and subtle. It's the nature of : our conditioning that we are thus primed to : desire things and people to be a certain : way, to have certain things, to prefer this : over that, to possess and control. Buddha : himself, and Buddhist and Taoist teachers : speak of desirelessness, yes, but I don't : think they're referring to the simple : desires, wanting to make love or wanting an : extra piece of toast. : : It the pervasive, habitual psychological : state of desiring,writ by our conditioning, : that they refer to, imo. In a constant state : of magnetizing what we want & repelling : what we don't, there reigns an ongoing : *resistance* to what-is, to reality, now, : and an tension that is *attachment* to our : own opinions, tastes and desired outcomes. : This feeds a steady discontent and : preoccupation with how things, people & : circumstances fall short of how we think : they *should* be, do, or happen, and leads : directly to involvement in *contriving* to : change people and situations to suit our : desires. : : The answer the sages give to this Desire is : non-attachment, seeing things and people as : they are without constantly measuring them : against how we'd rather they be. There's : peace in that. : : Non-resistance and non-attachment allude to : the gentle letting go of compulsive, : habitual desire that clouds our perceptions : and acceptance of reality; non-contrivance : is the letting go of trying to make : everything and everyone as we desire them : to be. : : Non-resisting, non-attached non-contriving, : we are genuine, open, and free to be : "flexible, elusive, unpredictable and : take harmony for our measure". : : So it seems to me, : : josef : : : : :

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