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Posted by rat on 4/26/2011, 10:12 am, in reply to "Re: self-interest; not selflessness"
24.5.62.x
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: hi rat,
:
: i have also seen the flip side of this, for
: instance something akin to the Buddhist
: concept of merit and the contest that can
: create. when old people came in to the tai
: chi club someone usually brought a chair. i
: remember a good friend practically hip
: checking me to get the chair. i know i'm not
: fast but i was about to meet someone. it
: happened quite a number of times and led me
: to question the idea of helping and harming.
: so i see it more as having the will to be
: more open minded and inclusive when
: possible. enjoy contributing, enjoy getting
: out of the way, cross fingers sometimes.
:
: d
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Seneca: "No one can ever live happily
: who has to regard himself alone and
: transforms everything into a question of his
: own utility; you must live for your
: neighbor, if you would live for
: yourself."
:
:
: Hi ButchO, have not forgotten my agreement.
: It is in my self-interest to keep it.
:
: love,
: rat
:
: rat,
:
: All of this dialogue is ultimately an
: infinite regression. No matter how refined
: we make our arguments they always lead to a
: yet more refined position. And so on and so
: forth. No wonder Zhuangzi was looking for a
: man that had forgotten words. That is, he
: was looking for people to talk to that were
: no longer clinging to their words. No longer
: enamored with their words. No longer
: attached to their words. Like me.
:
: I say infinite regression not as a put down
: or dismissal in any way. I believe our words
: are important. They have their use. Duck!
:
: The Southern School is shooting at us again.
: Hill Betties. Can't live with 'em. Can't
: shoot'em.
:
: I digress.
:
: Yes I do.
:
: As I was saying. I think our arguments, our
: discussions with emotional content, have
: their place in the scheme of things. Of
: course it is nice when everyone is being
: nice but, sometimes nice will only get you
: so far. A time and a season...
:
: Mathematically it is possible for two lines
: to never meet or cross even though they are
: always getting closer to each other. Makes
: my head hurt. And so it is when we try to
: make the final nondual statement. That is,
: the final nondual statement always implies a
: dualistic response. And so on and so forth.
: ie. Infinite Regression.
:
: But we like to have the last word. Well,
: some of you do. Us sages, well, we had just
: as soon head on out the door and go on down
: the road and cross on over the mountain and
: jump into the ocean and...
:
: Let us take the pledge. I do hereby solemnly
: swear to appreciate your report as long as
: you solemnly swear to appreciate mine. That
: is we can encourage one another to further
: refine our understanding of that which is
: beyond final understanding without appearing
: a sissyphus. As my buddy the OldBoy used to
: say, "Listen to ButchO and he will
: listen to you." Ok, he may never have
: actually said that, but it is true most of
: the time.
:
: So, I do hereby swear to look upon rat's
: position statements with a renewed sense of
: wonder and awe, if not, then shock and awe
: may have to do. rat challenges me. I like a
: challenge. He challenges me to rethink my
: own positions. To refine them so as to move
: ever closer to that which cannot be fully
: understood. Ultimate Reality for lack of a
: better placeholder. The Tao if you will. Or
: shit stick if you prefer. To each his or her
: own.
:
: One more thing, I would like to point out
: one disagreement I have with Zhuangzi. I
: think it would have been better to say,
: "Show me a 'person' that has forgotten
: words...
:
: Even our greatest sages could not touch the
: line with their words. We are all to an
: extent the product of our environment. Like
: us they were just pointing at it as best
: they knew how. The Kingdom of Heaven is
: "Like" a mustard seed.
:
: Yeah I know, I talk too much.
:
: PS anyway:
:
: Laozi was not a dualist. He was a nondualist
: that like the rest of us was painting within
: a dualistic medium. And a great painter he
: was.
:
: ButchO
:
: Hi Butcho
:
: I am going to need some help with this:
: "I do hereby solemnly swear to
: appreciate your report as long as you
: solemnly swear to appreciate mine."
: I can't think of any time where you did not
: appreciate what I wrote. At times you have
: disagreed with something I said. But what
: is wrong with that? Am I missing something
: here?
:
: love,
: rat
:
:
: rat,
:
: Don't take everything so personal. Besides,
: I told you to duck.
:
: ButchO
Dear ButchO
This trick of yours, feigning sincerity, and then laughing it off, is getting a bit old. But I defend to the death your right to do it.
love,
rat
152
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"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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