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Posted by rat on 4/13/2010, 6:23 am, in reply to "The Meaning of Life and Everything"
173.79.216.x
:
: --Previous Message--:
: By sin one thing I mean is anything that
: alienates one part of our being from the
: rest of our being. Anything that causes us
: to be fragmented keeps us from being our
: true selves. It does no good to deny an
: unsavory aspect of being. It is only through
: acceptance of our various parts that we can
: become what we are. We cannot become what we
: are not. In becoming what we are, in
: accepting all parts of our being, then and
: only then are we actually in a position
: where we can fundamentally change.
:
: The sage is a gestalt therapist. Not a get
: out of jail card. Ours is not a fixed
: reality. Existence is dynamic. More verb
: than noun. More process than structure.
: Those that say there is nothing to do are
: living in denial. They are denying the
: alienated aspects of their own being. We all
: have alienated aspects. We all do things
: contrary to the best interests of the whole
: of our being. There is always something to
: do, even sitting down and shutting up is
: something to do.
:
: Butcho, I agree with the above. It seems our
: disagreement is that I "hear"
: religious connotations in the word
: "sin", and you don't, you see sin
: as: "anything that alienates one part
: of our being from the rest of our
: being", a much broader definition.
: Semantics again causing confusion, nothing
: new there.
:
: josef
:
:
: josef,
:
: I am more into the spirit of the law than
: the letter of the law. The letter is written
: in stone. The spirit is written in the
: heart.
:
: Anything that obstructs the heart violates
: the spirit of the law of liberation. Laws
: written in stone do not liberate. They
: imprison. Laws written in the heart open one
: up to the whole of one's being.
:
: It is not enough to rebel against religious
: rules written in stone for the tendency is
: to simply replace them with our own rules.
: Rules that agree with us. The ego becomes
: god.
:
: The goal of my practice is to have an
: unobstructed heart. An unfettered heart. The
: adept is insentient as to the rewards of
: merit. The adept does not do good for reward
: but because it is good. Doing the right
: thing is its own reward. It is one thing to
: be practical, quite another to be
: pragmatically motivated.
:
: Pragmatism is the primary point where
: raymond and I part ways. I do not thing the
: adept is a pragmatist. She is not motivated
: by means justified by ends. Rather, for the
: adept the means are one's ends. The journey
: is the goal.
:
: The adept is practical, natural and
: uncontrived, not pragmatic. Not so much
: clever as genuine. Anyone can be clever.
: Superficial. Being genuine goes down into
: one's bones. Perhaps my argument with
: raymond is semantic. But I don't think so.
: To me raymond seems far too interested in
: his ends even, in his words, if those ends
: are nothing more than the product of a
: placebo effect. He doesn't care about his
: means. I do. Raymond does not care how he
: comes by his bliss. I do.
:
: Perhaps raymond will join in and add to our
: conversation. I hope so. I always find what
: he has to say of interest. He speaks for
: himself better than I do for him. If I have
: misrepresented him in anyway I hope he sets
: me straight.
:
: Butcho
:
: Hi Butcho
:
: Here's the definitions I have found for
: sin:
:
: 1. A transgression of a religious or moral
: law, especially when deliberate.
: 2. Theology
: a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will
: of God.
: b. A condition of estrangement from God
: resulting from such disobedience.
: 3. Something regarded as being shameful,
: deplorable, or utterly wrong.
: intr.v. sinned, sin·ning, sins
: 1. To violate a religious or moral law.
: 2. To commit an offense or violation.
:
: When I used the word "sin" in my
: post, I meant it as that Nmber One above. I
: have no use for that notion of sin. I do
: find useful the social norms of a society.
: Even though these cannot be coherent, they
: are necessary for social and psychological
: stability.
:
: Hi josef, I think you might be surprized by
: the number of non-experts, non-philosphers
: who have told me that if there is nothing
: that can be considered sinful, life is a
: meaningless activity.
:
: love,
: rat
:
: Hi, rat, I'm not surprised. What the Meaning
: of Life is is subject to all kinds of
: debate. (In "The Hitchhikers Guide to
: the Galaxy" wasn't the long-awaited
: answer to that question, "44"??)
: It seems most people want/need their lives
: to have meaning. I think,(could be wrong),
: it's from a desire/need to feel significant.
: If they need/want it, religion gives
: packaged answers; philosophy provides lots
: of conjecture to choose from. For the rest
: of us, it's just lived.
:
: josef
:
:
Hi josef
"It seems most people want/need their lives to have meaning. I think,(could be wrong), it's from a desire/need to feel significant."
Yes, I think this notion plays an important role in the liberation (jie) of Zhuangzi. His says the sage is "wu ming". Without significance, without name. To be free of the desire for significance is a breathtaking freedom.
love,
rat
405
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"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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