[ Post a Response | Tao Speaks ]
Posted by rat on 4/12/2010, 2:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Luther and wu wei"
173.79.216.x
--Previous Message--
:
:
: --Previous Message--
:
:
: --Previous Message--:
: By sin one thing I mean is anything that
: alienates one part of our being from the
: rest of our being. Anything that causes us
: to be fragmented keeps us from being our
: true selves. It does no good to deny an
: unsavory aspect of being. It is only through
: acceptance of our various parts that we can
: become what we are. We cannot become what we
: are not. In becoming what we are, in
: accepting all parts of our being, then and
: only then are we actually in a position
: where we can fundamentally change.
:
: The sage is a gestalt therapist. Not a get
: out of jail card. Ours is not a fixed
: reality. Existence is dynamic. More verb
: than noun. More process than structure.
: Those that say there is nothing to do are
: living in denial. They are denying the
: alienated aspects of their own being. We all
: have alienated aspects. We all do things
: contrary to the best interests of the whole
: of our being. There is always something to
: do, even sitting down and shutting up is
: something to do.
:
: Butcho, I agree with the above. It seems our
: disagreement is that I "hear"
: religious connotations in the word
: "sin", and you don't, you see sin
: as: "anything that alienates one part
: of our being from the rest of our
: being", a much broader definition.
: Semantics again causing confusion, nothing
: new there.
:
: josef
:
:
: josef,
:
: I am more into the spirit of the law than
: the letter of the law. The letter is written
: in stone. The spirit is written in the
: heart.
:
: Anything that obstructs the heart violates
: the spirit of the law of liberation. Laws
: written in stone do not liberate. They
: imprison. Laws written in the heart open one
: up to the whole of one's being.
:
: It is not enough to rebel against religious
: rules written in stone for the tendency is
: to simply replace them with our own rules.
: Rules that agree with us. The ego becomes
: god.
:
: The goal of my practice is to have an
: unobstructed heart. An unfettered heart. The
: adept is insentient as to the rewards of
: merit. The adept does not do good for reward
: but because it is good. Doing the right
: thing is its own reward. It is one thing to
: be practical, quite another to be
: pragmatically motivated.
:
: Pragmatism is the primary point where
: raymond and I part ways. I do not thing the
: adept is a pragmatist. She is not motivated
: by means justified by ends. Rather, for the
: adept the means are one's ends. The journey
: is the goal.
:
: The adept is practical, natural and
: uncontrived, not pragmatic. Not so much
: clever as genuine. Anyone can be clever.
: Superficial. Being genuine goes down into
: one's bones. Perhaps my argument with
: raymond is semantic. But I don't think so.
: To me raymond seems far too interested in
: his ends even, in his words, if those ends
: are nothing more than the product of a
: placebo effect. He doesn't care about his
: means. I do. Raymond does not care how he
: comes by his bliss. I do.
:
: Perhaps raymond will join in and add to our
: conversation. I hope so. I always find what
: he has to say of interest. He speaks for
: himself better than I do for him. If I have
: misrepresented him in anyway I hope he sets
: me straight.
:
: Butcho
:
Hi Butcho
Here's the definitions I have found for sin:
1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
2. Theology
a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God.
b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience.
3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
intr.v. sinned, sin·ning, sins
1. To violate a religious or moral law.
2. To commit an offense or violation.
When I used the word "sin" in my post, I meant it as that Nmber One above. I have no use for that notion of sin. I do find useful the social norms of a society. Even though these cannot be coherent, they are necessary for social and psychological stability.
Hi josef, I think you might be surprized by the number of non-experts, non-philosphers who have told me that if there is nothing that can be considered sinful, life is a meaningless activity.
love,
rat
306
Message Thread | Skip to this response ↓
« Back to index
"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Webmaster: zentao00@yahoo.com Donations help to support, upgrade and expand the Tao Speaks! community..Fight Spam! Click Here!