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Posted by josef on 4/12/2010, 8:43 am, in reply to "Re: Luther and wu wei"
24.32.223.x
--Previous Message--
: josef,
:
: I am more into the spirit of the law than
: the letter of the law. The letter is written
: in stone. The spirit is written in the
: heart.
:
: Anything that obstructs the heart violates
: the spirit of the law of liberation. Laws
: written in stone do not liberate. They
: imprison. Laws written in the heart open one
: up to the whole of one's being.
:
: It is not enough to rebel against religious
: rules written in stone for the tendency is
: to simply replace them with our own rules.
: Rules that agree with us. The ego becomes
: god.
:
: The goal of my practice is to have an
: unobstructed heart. An unfettered heart. The
: adept is insentient as to the rewards of
: merit. The adept does not do good for reward
: but because it is good. Doing the right
: thing is its own reward. It is one thing to
: be practical, quite another to be
: pragmatically motivated.
:
: Pragmatism is the primary point where
: raymond and I part ways. I do not thing the
: adept is a pragmatist. She is not motivated
: by means justified by ends. Rather, for the
: adept the means are one's ends. The journey
: is the goal.
:
: The adept is practical, natural and
: uncontrived, not pragmatic. Not so much
: clever as genuine. Anyone can be clever.
: Superficial. Being genuine goes down into
: one's bones. Perhaps my argument with
: raymond is semantic. But I don't think so.
: To me raymond seems far too interested in
: his ends even, in his words, if those ends
: are nothing more than the product of a
: placebo effect. He doesn't care about his
: means. I do. Raymond does not care how he
: comes by his bliss. I do.
:
: Perhaps raymond will join in and add to our
: conversation. I hope so. I always find what
: he has to say of interest. He speaks for
: himself better than I do for him. If I have
: misrepresented him in anyway I hope he sets
: me straight.
:
: Butcho
Butcho, your: "The adept does not do good for reward but because it is good" echoes Soren Kierkegaard: "Purity of heart is to will one thing: the good". I'd add my own little proviso that we can only choose what we consider the good at our current level of understanding and development, and in doubt can only can choose the better.
It seems to me very wise to remember in these considerations that the good we choose is framed by what/who we consider worth benefiting. Universal, absolute good can't be defined. It's sheer hubris to think we Know what, in the mysteries of universes and forces not understood, is the ultimate good.
: The adept is practical, natural and
: uncontrived, not pragmatic. Not so much
: clever as genuine. Anyone can be clever.
: Superficial. Being genuine goes down into
: one's bones.
Nicely said, but my sense of pragmatic IS being practical; having discernment of what is useful and effective and what is not, (even in choosing the good). So to me the adept would be the ultimate pragmatic. No doubt a semantics problem again?
To have this discussion is pleasing to me. When the need to be right or win an argument is set aside and views simply exchanged and considered, there is a sense of respect and openness I like a lot.
namaste,
josef
314
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"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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