Tao Speaks: Re: A Question for the Scholars?

Re: A Question for the Scholars?

Posted by Nina on 11/25/2009, 1:02 pm, in reply to "A Question for the Scholars?"
98.112.136.x

--Previous Message--
: Why does Verse 4 in some translations of the
: TTC read that "It is 'as if' the Tao is
: the Source of us all"? Is it, or isn't
: it?
:
: In R.L. Wing's translation he states that
: the "Tao" 'resembles' the Source
: of All Things. He then states in his
: commentary that the Tao is not the Source of
: the Universe. It is not the Absolute. Rather
: the Tao is the "Way" everything in
: the Universe changes and evolves.
:
: Butcho
:

Here's the Chinese characters for that line, Butch:

象 xiàng (hsiang) resemble, image, appear as
帝 dì (ti) emperor, supreme ruler
之 zhī (chih) 's (denotes possesive) his, hers, its, theirs
先 xiān (hsien) what came before, in advance, precede

My translation:
It seems to have preceded the first concept of existence.

One of the commentaries included in Red Pine's book:
Li Yueh says, "Ti is the Lord of Creation. All of creation comes after Ti, except the Tao, which comes before. But the nature of the Tao is to yield, hence Lao-tzu doesn't insist it came before. Thus he says 'it seems.' "

I think......
DDJ 4 is asking the question "When Did Dao Begin?"
Since most people (even those in Lao Zi's time) came up with the belief in a Master Creator (Creationism), it would be hard to tell them that anything could have existed before their Creator created everything. So, The Laozi is simply asking people to consider the possibility that their beliefs could be wrong. It's kind of a gentle approach.

366

Message Thread | Skip to this response ↓

A Question for the Scholars? - Butcho 11/25/2009, 7:58 am
- a look at etymology - ren ying 11/25/2009, 10:39 am
- Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Nina 11/25/2009, 1:02 pm
  - Re: A Question for the Scholars? - ren ying 11/25/2009, 2:01 pm
    - Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Nina 11/25/2009, 4:19 pm
      - Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Butcho 11/25/2009, 10:29 pm
        
        a commentary by Wing-Tsit Chan - ren ying 11/26/2009, 3:57 am
        
        Re: a commentary by Wing-Tsit Chan - Butcho 11/26/2009, 8:33 am
        
        Re: a commentary by Wing-Tsit Chan - gar 11/26/2009, 8:54 am
        
        Re: a commentary by Wing-Tsit Chan - Butcho 11/26/2009, 9:09 pm
        
        GRATIS_SAKER - GRATIS_SAKER 2/17/2012, 1:03 am
        
        just ren ying - ren ying 11/26/2009, 11:10 am
        
        Re: just ren ying - Butcho 11/26/2009, 5:16 pm
        
        Re: just ren ying - Butcho 11/26/2009, 9:38 pm
        
        Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Nina 11/26/2009, 5:45 pm
        
        Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Butcho 11/26/2009, 8:28 pm
      - Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Wayne L 11/27/2009, 5:15 pm
        
        Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Butcho 11/27/2009, 9:40 pm
        
        words - josef 11/28/2009, 8:28 am
        
        Re: words - ren ying 11/28/2009, 9:58 am
        
        Re: words - josef 11/28/2009, 10:18 am
        
        Re: words - Wayne L 11/28/2009, 11:58 am
        
        Re: words - Butcho 11/28/2009, 5:04 pm
        
        Re: words - Butcho 11/28/2009, 4:59 pm
        
        Re: words - josef 11/28/2009, 6:58 pm
        
        Ambiguous - gar 11/29/2009, 5:12 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - josef 11/29/2009, 6:16 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - Butcho 11/30/2009, 8:35 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - Butcho 11/30/2009, 8:38 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - josef 11/30/2009, 10:05 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - gar 11/30/2009, 10:09 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - Butcho 11/30/2009, 7:11 pm
        
        Re: Ambiguous - gar 11/30/2009, 10:06 am
        
        Re: Ambiguous - Butcho 11/30/2009, 7:19 pm
        
        Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Wayne L 11/28/2009, 11:41 am
        
        Re: A Question for the Scholars? - Butcho 11/28/2009, 5:07 pm
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--Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : Why does Verse 4 in some translations of the : TTC read that "It is 'as if' the Tao is : the Source of us all"? Is it, or isn't : it? : : In R.L. Wing's translation he states that : the "Tao" 'resembles' the Source : of All Things. He then states in his : commentary that the Tao is not the Source of : the Universe. It is not the Absolute. Rather : the Tao is the "Way" everything in : the Universe changes and evolves. : : Butcho : : : Here's the Chinese characters for that line, : Butch: : : 象 xiàng (hsiang) resemble, : image, appear as : 帝 dì (ti) emperor, supreme : ruler : 之 zhī (chih) 's (denotes : possesive) his, hers, its, theirs : 先 xiān (hsien) what came : before, in advance, precede : : My translation: : It seems to have preceded the first concept : of existence. : : One of the commentaries included in Red : Pine's book: : Li Yueh says, "Ti is the Lord of : Creation. All of creation comes after Ti, : except the Tao, which comes before. But the : nature of the Tao is to yield, hence Lao-tzu : doesn't insist it came before. Thus he says : 'it seems.' " : : I think...... : DDJ 4 is asking the question "When Did : Dao Begin?" : Since most people (even those in Lao Zi's : time) came up with the belief in a Master : Creator (Creationism), it would be hard to : tell them that anything could have existed : before their Creator created everything. : So, The Laozi is simply asking people to : consider the possibility that their beliefs : could be wrong. It's kind of a gentle : approach. : : : :

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