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Posted by redturtle
on 11/5/2009, 4:15 am, in reply to "here's a nearly non-philosophical one for Garr"
99.136.252.X
Rat,
I think one needs to be careful not to fall into one of the classic problems of western philosophical thought, the true or perfect representations of thoughts and ideas (no title pun intended)
This thought was drawn into question, by the argument of the dirty floor, is there a perfect dirty floor? Perhaps mysticism trying to be related to others is like trying to translate a personal language, the idea comes threw only in a larger sense.
Everyone has mental maps, love maps, experience maps and maps of mystical insight. As we travel and meet fellow travelers we can quickly gaze on parts of each others maps we are familiar with but some stuff is going to be mystery because we've never been there ourselves.
To extend out the metaphor, when one arrives at a destination we would compare what's on the map to the actual place and ask fellow travelers if this is indeed the destination. Sometimes we go clear off our map, that's when we do research and study to draw new parts. Never perfect and hard for others to understand.
redturtle
--Previous Message--
: (I published this one on scribd)
:
: Is there any truth to apophatic
: mysticism?
:
:
: Almost all mystics insist on the
: truth/authenticity of their path. Many
: would be offended by the suggestion that
: they might be fooling themselves with a mere
: dream or illusion.
:
: But the apophatic mystic—one example
: would be Zhuangzi—is not interested in
: authenticating her practice. She is
: interested in gaining a know-how, not in
: obtaining knowledge as to what is and is not
: ultimately true. She is only interested in
: le 樂, that beautiful feeling which results
: in her falling in love with every being and
: all of being. (容 rong the all-embracing)
: If you tell her that she is fooling herself,
: this will not bother her in the least.
:
: She is interested in the know-how that
: will allow this deep feeling of well-being
: (樂) to become non-contingent on any
: material event. Non-contingent le is called
: zile: 自樂. Zhuangzi: “When she was
: successful she was content; and when she
: miserably failed she was content.” (
: 窮亦樂，通亦樂 . )
:
: This does not mean that mystics like
: Zhuangzi are never sad, nor are they never
: tearful. Indeed we find out that Zhuangzi
: cried when his wife died. Zile indicates
: that there is a deep sense of well-being no
: matter what happens.
:
: The apophaticist has freed (jie 解)
: herself of all attachments. This includes
: any attachment to a claim of knowing
: ultimate truth. She is only interested in
: practical truth—whatever truly lets her
: enjoy life at this moment.
:
:
71
"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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