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Posted by Lian Dao on 6/26/2009, 12:25 pm, in reply to "I don't have to show you no stinkin' a' badges!"
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: --Previous Message--
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: Nina,
:
: To your question. Probably some form of
: insecurity I have not realized or dealt
: with.
:
: As far as the Hua Hu Ching, it is an oral
: tradition that dates back to the time of Lao
: Tzu. As far as legitimacy, the proof is in
: the pudding.
:
: We don't even know absolutely if there was a
: Lao Tzu or not. A Laozi or not. A Lao Dan or
: not. Such things are obscure. For me the
: important thing is do the words resonate
: with my bones or not. Whether they are the
: words of Lao Tzu, or Jesus, or the Buddha,
: or Lian Dao---did I just say that?, can I
: say that?. Am I going to be banned now or
: never.
:
: Please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate
: the work you and ren ying and others do in
: trying to be as accurate as you know how
: where such things as translation and
: authorship are concerned. But I am simply
: not the scholarly type. I dropped out of
: High School from boredom with such things.
: To each his or her own in such matters as
: style of life. I am an autodidact, plain and
: simple. I follow "my" nose.
: Although I have been known to walk down a
: crowded street following the gyrations of a
: double-walk from time to time. There was
: this redhead recently... Mama.
:
: Bad Butcho, Bad Butcho,... I hope josef
: isn't watching from the cheap seats. Pun
: intended. Hey jo! Part of enlightenment is
: to lighten up. Except of course where the
: bottom line is concerned.
:
: Buttcho
:
: It sounds like you're making excuses for
: not researching the books you revere. Then
: passing on information about them from one
: source you happened to have read.
:
: I hated high school too, Butch. Hated the
: fact that they tried to make me think the
: way they did. But....... if there's
: something I'm interested in, I'll try to
: find all the info on it available. That's
: why I spent 3 years researching the DDJ -
: both the English and Chinese versions. So,
: maybe I have a little animosity towards
: people like Dyer who are too busy writing
: books and giving seminars (claiming to
: actually know something about the ancient
: books they refer to) in order to make more
: $$$.
:
: Makes me wonder....... maybe a reason you
: make excuses is to appear to know more than
: you do? As you said, that might stem from
: insecurity, huh?
:
: I don't mean to pick on you, Butcho. When I
: ask for references and sources it's because
: there might be something I haven't come
: across yet. Some of us have spent lots of
: time researching these texts, and we just
: want to try see if opinions are based on
: anything solid. Understand?
:
: What speaks to your heart is fine with me.
:
:
: Nina & Lian Dao,
:
: I am not about to pretend, nor do I want to
: be, an apologist for the Hua Hu Ching. The
: two of you apparently have more of a history
: with the history of its history than I do.
: History, herstory, he said, she said.
:
: I have not attacked either of you in this
: matter. But as usual, I am attacked. Some
: things never change. Turf wars.
:
: The only challenge I have put forth is give
: me an example of extremism in the "Hua
: Hu Ching". So far no one has shared
: anything from Brian Walker's version that
: they have found to be extreme. Instead he is
: attacked and others, including myself as
: being a fake. Someone that passes themselves
: off as something they are not. As claiming
: knowledge I do not have. To borrow a comment
: from Jack Benny, "WELL!"
:
: I am just a man.
:
: Here is my rule of thumb where mentors,
: masters, messiahs, and such are concerned. I
: am not perfect in my understanding and
: actions and so feel it would be hypocritical
: of me to expect perfection in others. I am
: not looking for a middleman with connections
: I do not have. And I have a jaundiced eye
: when someone claims to be perfect, in
: anything. Thus my conversations with our
: friend, Perfect Steve.
:
: "If you wish to embody the Tao, stop
: chattering and start practicing." Hua
: Hu Ching.
:
: Yeah, pretty extremist stuff.
:
:
Butch, my dear friend, please stop taking everything personally. The Hua Hu Ching has inspired acts of sectarian extremism, whether or not it would inspire your good self to commit such acts is a questionable matter, but historically it has.
That 'mainstream' ( is that a better word?) Taoist groups avoid it really should be an indication of sorts as to the ambiguity of the text.
i'm just saying, that's all.
146
"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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