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Posted by ren ying
on 4/10/2009, 12:42 am, in reply to "Wu-Wei. Taoist Faith."
85.181.31.X
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: Friends,
:
: By "Faith" I do not mean anyone
: has to have the same faith in my God or gods
: as I do. By Faith I mean that no matter our
: personal philosophy we rely on something we
: have "named" to get us through our
: day. Especially the difficult ones.
:
: For ren ying it is faith in the
: "swing". For some it is simply
: faith in existence. For some it is the
: eternal Tao. Others Allah. Others the Great
: Spirit in the Sky. Others claim no faith in
: anything at all. Some have faith in no
: faith.
:
: We all trust in something. I trust in
: existence. And for me there is something
: behind or beyond the One and the Many.
: Beyond temporal existence. Something
: eternal. Something Moses called "I AM
: THAT I AM".
:
: Letting go of our conditioning is what it is
: all about for me. Being born again. Waking
: up. Returning to our original self, our
: original nature.
:
: And for me I find this best done when I let
: go of words.
:
: Butcho
:
: Letting go of conditioning is what it's all
: about for me too. Your "We all trust in
: something" gave me pause, wondering
: what it is I trust in. On reflection,
: strangely it's cause and effect, process,
: AKA Tao, the Way.
:
: Yes Josef, letting go of conditioning, i
: like that!
:
: in peace,
: gar
:
:
: Friends,
:
: Is not faith another word for wu-wei? Is not
: wu-wei action that is in accord with the way
: of the Tao. Wu-wei equals faith-action.
: Unconditioned action. Action free of one's
: conditioning. Natural action is more the
: product of feel than it is of thinking.
:
: Butcho
:
Butch - the problem is that you are using words - for example "faith" in the way you like...
Merriam Webster writes
1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs
wu wei has nothing to do with this
Urvertrauen has nothing to do with this
-
If you take 2 a
This faith destroys "Urvertrauen"
Since it makes you for trust dependent on this...
Urvertrauen is given naturally...
Somehow i have the feeling you are meaning just this...
we cannot understand wu wei
if we have not understood
wu
before
136
"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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