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Posted by Steve on 2/19/2009, 9:16 am, in reply to "Re: Figurative-ing out Steve"
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Re: environmentalists and 'living in harmony with nature'
Short of being a mind reader, Bao Pu, I can't know for sure what a given environmentalist might mean by 'living in harmony with nature.'
I don't often hear that kind of language from scientists doing their jobs, and I prefer it that way. I have strongly-held views regarding the intrusion of religious/spiritual beliefs into the public sector.
I see nothing out there to be 'in sync' or 'in harmony with.' To my eyes and ears, 'in sync' and 'in harmony' is what you do when you live among gods.
In the dao I'm best served when I live in an uncontrived, spontaneous manner, trusting my instincts and not freaking out when the icky bits come my way. The better I do that, the better I serve my interests (as well as the interests of the environment), and the happier I am.
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Re: "When you asked, "What would it mean, to be fundamentally out-of-sync with the dao? What degree of separation could possibly exist--outside of my subjective sense and experience--for such a thing to be true?" I didn't realize it was a rhetorical question. It now doesn't seem that you sincerely wanted to try to understand this "out-of-sync" viewpoint."
Yes, it was a personal meditation of sorts. We all do that sort of thing on the board from time to time.
I think I have a pretty good grasp of what Daoists and others mean when they talk about being 'out-of-sync,' though I'm always open to hearing more.
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Re: "You said, "In the literature, 'not Dao' or 'lacking Dao' might be understood figuratively, not literally." And I asked, "For sure. What does that mean to you?" I think that is straightforward."
At the time I gave you this response:
"'Not Dao' or 'lacking Dao' challenge me to consider what it means to project my own demands and expectations onto the universe.
It's okay for me to stand in front of a sapling and pray for it to grow wide and tall, but that's not the way trees conduct their business. It's 'not Dao' for a tree to grow because I merely wish it to."
The tree illustration is the best I can do with your question, Bao Pu. If you think it's not responsive or that I'm not understanding your question, you might try to rephrase the question. Or not.
Steve
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"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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