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Posted by Bao Pu
on 2/18/2009, 1:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Figurative-ing out Steve"
99.255.167.x
--Previous Message--
: Steve--If by 'out-of-sync' you mean some sort
: of maladjustment with nature, I don't buy it.
:
: Bao Pu--Do you also have a beef with modern
: environmentalists who say similarly that we
: aren't living in harmony with Nature? What
: do they mean when they say things like this?
:
: --------------
:
: I don't know what the environmentalists see,
: Bao Pu. I only know what I see.
-- Then I guess you have no interest in trying to understand others? Fair enough.
: When I f*uck with the environment, I'm making a
: very critical error in judgment. I'm acting
: contrary to my best interests.
:
: 'Harmony with Nature' means nothing to me.
: Imo it's a bullshit concept.
-- Then why don't you shut up and let others, for whom it is meaningful, discuss it? (I know this is your thread, but it seems you just wanted another opportunity to pound your view into our heads.)
: You and I are nature. We cannot be out of
: harmony with ourselves.
:
: --------------
:
: Steve--'Potential not realized' is Dao too.
: When I fail to realize potential, that's
: Dao.
:
: 'Not Dao' or 'lacking Dao' challenge me to
: consider what it means to project my own
: demands and expectations onto the universe.
:
: Bao Pu--Encountering these expressions
: in ancient (or even modern) Chinese should
: also perhaps challenge you to consider what
: Dao really meant to them. It seems to me,
: and I could be wrong, that Steve has this
: conception of what "Dao" means,
: and that anyone who believes otherwise is mistaken
: and needs to be corrected or enlightened. (Or
: else Steve wouldn't jump all over anyone who
: utters such a view on this forum.) The fact that
: the Chinese themselves used the word in ways
: which don't fit Steve's view doesn't seem to
: bother him. You mentioned that these expressions in
: the ancient texts might (must?) be
: figurative. I'd still like to hear more about that. Are
: figurative uses allowable?
:
: ----------------------------------
:
: You know, Bao Pu, you fancy yourself a
: scholar, and questions like "what did
: Dao mean to the ancient Chinese" are
: important to you. I get that, and have no
: problem with it.
:
: Try to understand, however, that for some of
: us the 'exact' understanding of long-dead
: Chinese guys is not the juicy bit. Not the
: pearl we go diving for. For you, it seems to be a largely
: intellectual exercise. For me, it's largely
: a touchy-feely thing.
:
: Can we agree that both approaches are okay?
-- Well, what I don't get is why you insist on discussing "dao" but you don't actually care what it means.
: Re: "Or else Steve wouldn't jump all
: over anyone who utters such a view on this forum."
:
: As I recall, Bao Pu, it was you who once
: noted that the primary usefulness of these
: forums isn't in agreeing with everything
: that everyone says. In stroking each
: others' Big Fat Egos.
-- I think continuous agreement and/or continuous disagreement don't make for a good discussion forum.
: I think you're being defensive, defending
: the scholarly treasure trove you've amassed
: over time. And that's perfectly fine. I
: get defensive too (maybe even now, lol).
:
: But, you know...anything and everything that
: comes to us is perfectly okay. In my philosophy, at least. :)
Can you do me a favour Steve? Can you answer my question? In all honesty, I'm being very sincere.
Harmony,
Bao Pu
383
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"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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