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Posted by Lian Dao on 11/13/2008, 4:03 am, in reply to "Speaking of Mickey Rooney & Elizabeth Taylor."
78.150.172.X
: To Steve's point about members of a religion
: being responsible for the actions of that
: religion, or something to that effect, I can
: understand his feelings. But I do not
: necessarily agree with him. Not very many
: Catholics think pedophilia is a laughing
: matter. Should we blame the lay Catholic for
: the sins of some of their priests? Should
: lay members wear shirts condemning the
: actions of some of their priests?
Do you honestly believe that any individual that depends upon another individual to tell them what to believe and how to live their life around that, is in full control of their capabilities?
What sort of relationship are we to expect from a man who insists that we call him 'Father' and wears a dress?
How much blame should we place upon the priests, the gurus, the masters, who are just as fully functioning human as we are, when they abuse their power over us? Who gave them that power over us in the first place? And who may take that power from them?
:
: Personally, I have found people to be like
: apples on a tree. Some are good and some are
: bad.
Not very Taoist Butch. What happened to the yin in your yang?
:
: As for our militant friend Steve, I think
: his cause would be better served if he
: focused more on those that support gay
: marriage than simply condemning those that
: are against it.
Why? Why would his cause be better served for being like that?
:
: For me the issue of gay marraige was finally
: resolved when I thought of it in these
: terms. If someone has the right to get
: married and divorced over and over again
: then how can any adult be denied the right
: to marry the person of their choice at least
: once... and yet at the same time people have
: a right to believe that marriage is
: exclusively a heterosexual bond. What to do?
i'm not really following that train of thought there Butch. i'm not seeing that connection. How does the right to believe that only straights are capable of committing to marriage fit in with the right to remarry as many times as you choose?
:
: Allow Civil Unions with "all" the
: legal rights of Marriage. Allow churches,
: religions, that choose to do so to marry gay
: couples. But don't give gays the right to
: sue a church that refuses to marry them
: because of their religious beliefs. I don't
: have a problem with making rules to protect
: minorities as long as those rules don't
: violate the rights of others.
Hmmm. Butch, i'm intrigued as to how 'making rules to protect minorities' would 'violate the rights of others' particularly in this case?
If an aspect of institutionalised religion refuses to accept gay marriage they do so from the position that homosexuality is 'wrong' or 'perverted' in accordance with their interpretation of their particular belief-system. In refusing to recognise gay marriage, they are refusing to recognise the basic humanity of gays to function and exist as basic, human grown-ups with all of the joy and sorrow, successes and mistakes that that may bring with it.
Some of your religious friends hold that the earth is 6 000 years old. Are they right to believe that? Should they have the right to vote, bear arms and raise kids when they are clearly not fully functioning human grown-ups?
:
: If this doesn't work for Steve then I am
: sorry. We don't always get what we want.
:
:
We may indeed not. However, if we as humans and either collectively or individually had always had that in mind, then what sort of a world would we be living in right now? And when it's all said and done, mercifully, it isn't up to you whether we do or don't get what we want.
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"The Tao is basically utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes".
-Li Daoqun
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