Tao Speaks: loop-escape

loop-escape

Posted by rat on 3/12/2008, 5:58 pm, in reply to "arrested consistency and the art of Daoism and Chapter 16 DDJ as the key"
76.211.249.X

--Previous Message--
: i am in an accord of sorts, good sir.
: Obviously the logical model, the paradigm
: that defines may only be applied to that
: which we may percieve and define and which
: we are now refering to as the loop. Yet in
: order to perceive this loop then we must to
: some degree be outside of this loop in order
: for us to even be able to perceive the
: process. This 'willed' perception is more
: marked in Daoism and Zen, which have both
: developed proceedures to enhance (a safe
: enough word?) this experience.
:
If you are saying loop-escape is a subjective experience that can be enhanced by skillful means, I agree. I have problems when skillful means is taken to be a fundamental (not practical) solution for anything. I have problems when anything is claimed to be fundamentally solved.

When I do, I could be wrong, but I feel like I am BSing myself.

Message Thread:

logical inconsistency at the heart of daoism and arresting the mind - rat 3/12/2008, 8:45 am
- Re: logical inconsistency at the heart of daoism and arresting the mind - Steve 3/12/2008, 10:00 am
  - Re: logical inconsistency at the heart of daoism and arresting the mind - rat 3/12/2008, 10:08 am
    - Re: logical inconsistency at the heart of daoism and arresting the mind - Steve 3/12/2008, 10:38 am
      - Re: logical inconsistency at the heart of daoism and arresting the mind - rat 3/12/2008, 6:05 pm
- arrested consistency and the art of Daoism and Chapter 16 DDJ as the key - Lian Dao 3/12/2008, 10:50 am
  - Re: arrested consistency and the art of Daoism and Chapter 16 DDJ as the key - gar 3/12/2008, 5:09 pm
    - here and there and back again - Lian Dao 3/13/2008, 1:20 am
      - Re: here and there and back again - gar 3/13/2008, 6:47 am
        
        yeshua wants me for a rainbow - Lian Dao 3/13/2008, 7:13 am
        
        Re: yeshua wants me for a rainbow - gar 3/13/2008, 7:32 am
        
        fundamentalist choice heaven or hell? i choose neither! - Lian Dao 3/13/2008, 11:10 am
  - loop-escape - rat 3/12/2008, 5:58 pm
    - Re: loop-escape - Steve 3/12/2008, 6:48 pm
      - Re: loop-escape - Chris 3/12/2008, 9:02 pm
    - subject to conditions - Lian Dao 3/13/2008, 1:41 am
      - Re: subject to conditions & enjoying despite not escaping - rat 3/13/2008, 9:47 am
        
        round and round the mulberry bush - Lian Dao 3/13/2008, 11:07 am
- Bad Faith - Butch 3/13/2008, 10:02 am
  - Re: Bad Faith - rat 3/13/2008, 6:36 pm
    - Re: Bad Faith - rat 3/13/2008, 6:36 pm
  - Re: Bad Faith - Wayne L 3/15/2008, 1:08 pm
- Re: logical inconsistency at the heart of daoism and arresting the mind - Wayne L 3/15/2008, 11:48 am
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--Previous Message-- : : : --Previous Message-- : i am in an accord of sorts, good sir. : Obviously the logical model, the paradigm : that defines may only be applied to that : which we may percieve and define and which : we are now refering to as the loop. Yet in : order to perceive this loop then we must to : some degree be outside of this loop in order : for us to even be able to perceive the : process. This 'willed' perception is more : marked in Daoism and Zen, which have both : developed proceedures to enhance (a safe : enough word?) this experience. : : If you are saying loop-escape is a : subjective experience that can be enhanced : by skillful means, I agree. I have problems : when skillful means is taken to be a : fundamental (not practical) solution for : anything. I have problems when anything is : claimed to be fundamentally solved. : : When I do, I could be wrong, but I feel like : I am BSing myself. :

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