[ Post a Response | The SteelNavy.Com Message Board ]
Re: PS - Can't resist this
Posted by francis williams on November 8, 2018, 8:36:38, in reply to "PS
T'would be kinda great if the way to a 1/350 HMS Sheffield was found in the locker as well.....just saying.
Of microscopic interest,
On the matter of the make up of paint for RN ships, It was noted that battleship Royal Sovereign was easily seen at a distance by one of the spotting during the Battle of Calabria due to her shiny overall pre war 507c paint work, whereas other ships were not reported on in this manner.
If I can find my sample of mid war 507a deck grey, one that came from Sheffield's locker, I will send it to John Synder. IF, I can find it.
Having seen the cards for deck 507a and the vertical 507a, there is really NO difference, and in actual use when applied, NO DIFFERENCE. As for titles on documents. the sheet for Belfast in late 1942 in her ADM camouflage, uses the term 507a for the steel and wood decks. What matters for modelers is the colour. The technical specification is academic for me. Some however may find it important.
Yes they were for camouflage of vertical surfaces at least and an example is CAFO 679/42, but I personally have not seen any which predate the time when 507B was discontinued by the order to cease use of enamel in 1940. In written text it is fairly rare though even after this. However, I have yet to see anything which states an Admiralty Pattern 507 family paint as a deck paint though during WW2. Non-slip paints to same colour of, yes, but not actually a genuine pattern 507 linseed oil paint. If you have anything which does I'd love to see it Everything discussing decks in the fleet orders, Confidential Book series and the correspondence seen so far in the National Archives talks about colour of decks and brings up non-slip paints a lot.
Perhaps it's semantics, but strictly speaking, the Admiralty Pattern 507s were very specific formulations of linseed oil paint and not colours in their own right. All Admiralty Pattern 507A was Dark Grey, Home Fleet Shade, but civilian supplied non-slip deck paint in Dark Grey, Home Fleet Shade didn't meet Admiralty Pattern 507A because obviously there was different stuff in it.
My point is that the terminology does make a difference, and we have primary source documented proof now that the Royal Navy had both deck paints which matched the colours of the vertical surface paints and they had more besides including a another dark grey which they listed between black and HFG in a list that was ordered dark to light also.
What that allows, particularly for early war Home Fleet ships is a perceived scheme of HFG on the verticals and still a darker paint on steeo decks and sometimes turret tops as per your writings.
507a and others WERE titled as such in official documents including the actual camouflage sheets for class designs and for individual ships. I still have some of them, and viewed others many years ago before they were burned. I still have some of my notes taken from the sheets from decades ago.
Indeed they did.
There were a range of proprietary non-slip paints available by 1941. These were listed as Black, Dark Grey, Home Fleet Grey, Light Grey and so on.
I think it's important to reiterate that it woupd help understanding of the subject a lot to stop talking about 507A and 507B as colours. They weren't - they were specific oil paint formulations and they both made Home Fleet Grey paint, one without expensive, hard-wearing and glossy enamel and one with. The actual colour was referred to by the Royal Navy as "Dark Grey, Home Fleet Shade" or simply "Home Fleet Grey".
By mid war, non-slip paints were available in any of the standardised camouflage colours also.
For aircraft carriers in particular, there was a single paint system for flight decks in the 1933 abd 1937 Rate Book of Naval Stores; Admiralty Pattern 631 Bronze Grey. This was a typical oil paint made from linseed oil, thinners, white, black and a whole heap of yellow ochre pigments. The result was a dark olive. It was to be used by scattering saw dust onto a still-wet second coat of standard red oxide primer. Once the saw dust was "glued" to the flight deck, the Bronze Grey linseed oil paint was sprayed on over it to give a rough surface for flight ops. Use of Admiralty Pattern 631 is unlikely to have continued beyond 1941/1942 once proper non-slip paints were available to order in the standardised colours. Documents and photographs strongly indicate the use of camouflaged flight decks by 1943ish.
CB.3098 published in 1943 recommended B30 for decka and horizontal surfaces on Western Approaches schemes during winter months to reduce visibility of decks to U-Boats as the ship rolled!
The time period and application is important as far as British subjects go. There is/was no universal rule.
Regards to all,
some British and German ships had camoyflage on the decks.
According to Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats range the colours are:
For Royal Navy warship decks - Colourcoats NARN 23 - WW2 Dark Grey Non-Slip Deck Paint
For Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier Flight-decks - Colourcoats NARN46 - Admiralty Pattern 631 Bronze Grey (Carrier Flight Decks)
Sorry, can't help you on German deck colour.
1. What was the color of German steel decks? Was is Dunkelgrau?
2. Same question but for British steel decks? Was 507A or 507B used or some other color?
3. What color was used on British Aircraft Carrier flight decks?
SteelNavy.Com Home Page