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dog catching in pic up top Posted by Johnny fairplay on December 2, 2009, 12:59 pm So what's the story on this pic ? Is this dog used for catch work or is it fighting off an invading hog? I know in general those types of dogs are no good for catch work because they don't like to grip like a bulldog or lack the prey drive . So what's the story ?

be nice if someone would answer the question...n/m Posted by snake on December 5, 2009, 4:08 pm, in reply to "dog catching in pic up top"

be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT Posted by JD on December 6, 2009, 11:43 am, in reply to "be nice if someone would answer the question...n/m" The aboriginal Central Asian dogs be it Koochee, Gamper, etc HUNT game. That is how they survived for thousands of years. NO pedigree dog food, lambs were for food, they have a finishing prey drive. males do too but often leave the killing t the females like a Lions pride. The new Ovcharka or ALabai type have different standards that call for a non working dog. too big to hunt, no tuck, and not bred to work as a pack.

looks staged... Posted by snake on December 7, 2009, 11:30 pm, in reply to "be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT" besides cao's not by any means a boar dog...1st fishy thing for many reasons... the boar has no cutters, someone cut'em off...i highly doubt this dog was taken out...scented/tracked the boar...then ran it down & caught it solo... dog has no cut gear, there is no other helper dogs ie; bay or catch dogs...just this cao...nobody hunts boar with one dog...or doesn't suit them up, unless they want a dead dog... imo its most likely a penned hog...just all n all seems fishy to me...

Of course to a snake it would assumptions Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 7:47 am, in reply to "looks staged..." Whatever I dont the know the dog the CAS was a WOLF hound used to HUNT for centuries jWolf , lion, Bear and anythign else and im sure pigs were NOT available in Central asia as a main course. Pics does not show if other dogs are around. Bite on hog alone shows it is not a catch dog. Dogs did hunt before men with gun were invented And I did not say CAO . CAO dont look like that any more, CAS, Koochee or even Gamper.

Re: Of course to a snake it would assumptions Posted by snake on December 8, 2009, 12:17 pm, in reply to "Of course to a snake it would assumptions" cao/cas is splitting hairs as far as this goes... you weren't there centuries ago...so comparing past & present as far as hunting is irrelevant...who knows what was mixed in back then to give them the nose & wind/legs to hunt effectively for the so called "hunt" type you say... JD wrote "Bite on hog alone shows it is not a catch dog." the ear is a spot where catchdogs catch...so what are you trying to say... imo what i stated in the previous post is relevant and a valid opinion...based on many factors that makes it suspicious & questionable...the biggest reason no cutters...people cut or snap them off to test the dog so it doesn't get injured... or is it just simply blasphemy for a person to even question the SUPERDOGS

1860 Wolf hunt Turkmen dogs Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 1:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Of course to a snake it would assumptions" Yes the many books written backg 100 years ago, till present are all wrong and the snake is correct. Plus the sketches, paintings and pics are yep all wrong too. You total ignorance on dogs is sad. But typical of snakes. THat long ago the catch dogs were not in thee areas of remote Central Asia, many were not even invented yet, and the catch dogs had no fur to survive the harsh weather or men to save their asses with guns. So sorry that the nomads dont carry poloraids around with them BAD BAD nomads!!! If u knew anything and read a book u would see they were WOLF crosses by nature, wolf x dog before on a natural breed in open areas is close to fact then 120 years ago some Turkmen or Afghani nomad on Camel finding a Bulldog to cross them with . IN addition sighthounds date back to same time period like Tazi and yep no kennels U think some of the dogs were crossed with hounds ? The fact that the dog does NOT have a catch grip indicates it is not a catch dog. Catch dogs are not the same as hunting dogs DUH! Sir William Jardine Published London 1860 The Naturalists Library Volume 19 Mammalia dogs volume 2 "Turkmen Watchdog" This is a large rugged and fierce race, equaling the wolf in statue shaped like a Irish Greyhound and with equally powerful jaws, the ears ERECT the tail rather hairy their color a deep yellowish red and so like the NARTAN wolf. That a friend being present in Asia minor at WOLF HUNT it allowed me to pass out of a brake because he mistook him for one of the Turkmendogs. There were among them a few white & black evidently crossed dogs from another origin This race extends where the Turkmen or Torkee people reside from Central high Asia to Bosphurus." NOTE The Irish Grey hound as described in this books does NOT resemble the Today breeds from Ireland. · Date: · Filesize: 36.3kb · Dimensions: 372 x 600 ·

Re: 1860 Wolf hunt Turkmen dogs Posted by snake on December 8, 2009, 4:08 pm, in reply to "1860 Wolf hunt Turkmen dogs" JD "Yes the many books written backg 100 years ago, till present are all wrong and the snake is correct." Plus the sketches, paintings and pics are yep all wrong too."You total ignorance on dogs is sad. But typical of snakes." i didn't say they were wrong did i??...but those aren't modern cas's...more like alaunt types with various mixed blood as i stated... i'm talking about boar hunting and that cas specifically as per the pic...not WOLF hunting dogs, not LGD's and how far thier romantic ancestry goes back...not alaunt types of the period...not 1860 1902 or whatever...2009 jd... show me more proof of cas's hunting boar...not one pic that you don't even know the background on...i'm not asking for your historical references, 2009 jd... jd wrote "Catch dogs are not the same as hunting dogs DUH!" DUH on you, "if u knew anything"!!...as you say...because that statement alone shows you don't know crap about boar hunting then...because there ARE "hunting catch dogs"...called a dogo & many other crosses/types that are that...got to becareful with snakes cuz they bite back HA!! if cas's were worth thier salt hunting hogs, hog hunters would be using them...wonder why you don't see them??...cuz they aren't... they might be good a certain things but HUNTING BOAR isn't one of them... jd wrote "If u knew anything and read a book u would see they were WOLF crosses by nature, wolf x dog before on a natural breed in open areas... love how you ASSUME i didn't know that...nothing i wrote would indicate that...pulling rabbits out of a hat know eh??...your just mad because someone is being critical of your beloved superdogs...

Why dogs dont work any more because of U small dickless wonders Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 4:32 pm, in reply to "Re: 1860 Wolf hunt Turkmen dogs" You know jack SHIT about the CAS . You cant talk of what you dont know. And Alaunt Or jesus i got bridge to sell im sure u would ingnorant enough to buy. Me posting pics of CAS 70 yrs ago , skulls to modern CAS vs CAO wont make a difference to someone with a made up resume. All because a dog is on a hog does not make them a catch dog and not everything has to be black or white. Same way many use catch dogs as livestock gaurdians does not mean they fit the same term as LGDS do but doesnt mean they cant do it either. Hunting existed with sight hounds long before catching hogs was even a dream. SH date back in time when the landraces of dogs were coming to be. And none were CATCH DOGS. PS my website unlike others has NO marketing bullshit including super dogs. But yet I am not allowed to like my dogs and I dont sell them as anything other than what they are. It is small penis people like you that pen terms like super dogs and who has NO ego to stand on when they only way they can get attention in heir sorry ass life is to attack others and other breeds. Sick sad people like you are the ones that ruin it for al. Its all about u and yours . Vs mine instead of just posting a pic and leaving it be. NOTHING was posted about the pic u are so bored and pathetic that u needed something to do. Now back to my nephew his IQ has surpassed yours long ago. Toodles

Re: looks staged... Posted by AmyB on December 8, 2009, 5:09 pm, in reply to "looks staged..." I don't see where the cutters have been cut off. It's not a big boar and they don't always have big cutters. We caught one that didn't look like it had any cutters - see photo: You had to open the mouth and lift the upper lip to see very small cutters on it. No way from that photo you are judging can you say or even assume the cutters were cut off IMO. To me it looks like a young, small boar and I'd bet if you would have to open it's mouth and lift the top lip to see small cutters just starting out. Also, I know of no one who cuts off the cutters of a hog when they test them in a pen. Never seen it or heard of it...not that it doesn't happen but it's not a common practice IMO. You can't tell by the photo if the dog tracked the boar down and caught it or not...it's just a photo of the dog on the ear of the boar - period. YOU may doubt this dog tracked it and caught it by the photo but I doubt you would know the difference by a photo. Not all hunters put cut gear on their dogs. Some find that cut gear limits a dog's movement to the point it does more harm than good. The dogs in the photo I posted don't have cut vests. No other dog or helper???? Here is a photo of Rosa being separated from a hog that she caught BY HERSELF: She was about 10 feet away from the photo of the other hog I posted that had 3 dogs on it. Note that Rosa has a cut collar but no vest. Only a couple of the dogs that were there had cut collars on - the rest had no cut collar or vest. And I can assure you that neither hog was caught in a pen...both were tracked and caught by the dogs. I don't see any red flags in the photo that was posted....none of the "fishy" things you see....just a dog holding the ear of a boar like the dogs are doing in the photos I posted. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Amy B

Re: Why dogs dont work any more because of U small dickless wonders Posted by snake on December 8, 2009, 5:11 pm, in reply to "Why dogs dont work any more because of U small dickless wonders" i was questioning the pic and honestly wondering about it...and you GO OFF like a nut case on tangents about dogs from 1 million bc, dogs in books and cave drawing from the cretaceous period...who cares??...its 2009 JD your p!ssed cuz you can't give me a real answer about cas's hunting boar in MODERN times...because of your lack of knowledge on the subject...your like a kid having a tantrum now ...pretty impressive for the board admin...saying "Why dogs dont work any more because of U small dickless wonders" what does various breeds working or not working have anything what so ever to do with me questioning that cas on a boar?? or me specifically?? jd wrote "Hunting existed with sight hounds long before catching hogs was even a dream." whats your point??...and what does that have to do with modern cas's hunting boar?? jd wrote "You know jack SHIT about the CAS . You cant talk of what you dont know." kinda like you and real boar hunting?? jd "Now back to my nephew" and your actions are bout his age as well... when people can't answer questions they like to resort to name calling and tactics like you have perfectly demonstrated...good job jd!!

great pics thanks Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 5:12 pm, in reply to "Re: looks staged..." interesting what kind of collar is that?

Re: great pics thanks Posted by AmyB on December 8, 2009, 5:29 pm, in reply to "great pics thanks" The dog in the second pic (Rosa) has a cut collar and a tracking collar on. Here is a link to Wild Boar USA with photo of a cut collar: http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/WildBoarUSA/-strse-103/H.-LIFETIME-4-dsh-CUT-COLLAR-dsh-1/Detail.bok Most cut collars are usually about 4 or 5 inches wide and made of layers of industrial felt or kevlar. Here is a link to a place and if you scroll down (hopefully I copied the link correctly), you see a photo of a dog with a 5 inch wide cut collar made of industrial felt. Amy B

Re: looks staged... Posted by snake on December 8, 2009, 5:30 pm, in reply to "Re: looks staged..." Also, I know of no one who cuts off the cutters of a hog when they test them in a pen. Never seen it or heard of it...not that it doesn't happen but it's not a common practice IMO. oh i have...they cut'em off...and i've heard of folks taking a pipe that fits over the cutter and snapping them off... You can't tell by the photo if the dog tracked the boar down and caught it or not...it's just a photo of the dog on the ear of the boar - period. YOU may doubt this dog tracked it and caught it by the photo but I doubt you would know the difference by a photo. thats why stated my opinion...cas aren't known for it...hence my questioning it...if i were looking at a bully arab, stag, dogo, catdo or any cur or rcd crosses etc...i would even had anything to say about it...i question it because its a cas... Not all hunters put cut gear on their dogs. Some find that cut gear limits a dog's movement to the point it does more harm than good. The dogs in the photo I posted don't have cut vests. i know this or heat reasons...true not all but most atleast have a cut collar...and hunting with a single dog without anything, would be stupid and irresponsible...one bad hog with real cutters and the dogs toast...thats a small hog in the pic...so not impressive anyways... No other dog or helper???? Here is a photo of Rosa being separated from a hog that she caught BY HERSELF: sure a dog can catch solo...yours is a dogo, meant for it for one thing...but there were other dogs on the hunt...and again its a dogo nuff' said... You had to open the mouth and lift the upper lip to see very small cutters on it. the cas pic the hogs mouth is open...cutters are the bottoms...you say upper lip which are the wetters...as i'm sure you know but miswrote...

Oops - forgot to post second link Posted by AmyB on December 8, 2009, 5:33 pm, in reply to "Re: great pics thanks" Oops! forgot to post the second link. Here it is: http://www.bayheadcutvest.com/paypal.htm

great links for working dog people thanks Amy!! Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 5:48 pm, in reply to "Oops - forgot to post second link"

Why do CAS need to HUNT hog today when we have CATCH DOGS? Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 5:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Why dogs dont work any more because of U small dickless wonders" Get off computer and live a little. A pic showing a dog on a hog does not make a catch dog !! Today we created breeds that are experts in things be it catch work, PP work, therapy. etc Does not mean other breeds cant do it !! Excelling at it is different than doing it/ I do have CAS that have hunted and taken down hogs on their own to owners dismay including havelinas.... GOd dont mean I am taking out dog world add for catch dogs. God you are KGB what u say goes here on my board? Im not allowed to post a CAS doing anything but laying next to sheep Please get a grip.

Re: looks staged... Posted by AmyB on December 8, 2009, 6:05 pm, in reply to "Re: looks staged..." Well...the fact you know so many folks who cheat and cut off the cutters or break them off the hogs they test their dogs on doesn't show much of anything good to me about the type folks you associate with but does show me why you assume others do it. There aer actually a lot of people the don't use cut gear when they hunt....I've never hunted with anyone who put cut vests on their dogs so I wouldn't say most hunters do but I guess the people you know all use cut vests. Do they put cut vests on their dogs when they pen test them against those cutterless hogs? LOL! I appreciate your kind words about the dogo but......the point was obvious and you are intentionally avoiding it. You can't tell if other dogs were there from the initial photo, just like you can't tell there were other dogs on the hunt in the second photo I posted without me posting the photo and saying they were there. I looked at that initial photo again and no way you can say that boars cutters were cut off.....you are just dead wrong on the bottom ones. It's just a small, young boar with small teeth is all IMO from what I can see. That dog in the photo shouldn't have any problem handling that size hog ALONE...doesn't matter if it's a Dogo, a bulldog or a CAS. CAS isn't your typical hunting dog but certainly doesn't mean it couldn't do just that. I don't see sides of a pen or enclosure in that photo. At any rate...the fact the dog has the boar by the ear tells me it has some balls. You don't believe the dog can hunt because it's a CAS? You're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I once saw a 15 pound jack russel terrier bay up a 350 pound boar and make it sit on its ass....since then I won't go by what a dog can or can't do by dog breed alone. You think the photo was staged? I guess with the company you keep where that it apparently common it makes sense that you would think that way. For me.....I liked the picture. Whether or not the dog tracked that hog down or ran into it (which no way in hell you can tell by that photo), that dog had enough balls to grab it and hold it. Amy B

Re: looks staged... Posted by snake on December 8, 2009, 6:59 pm, in reply to "Re: looks staged..." Well...the fact you know so many folks who cheat and cut off the cutters or break them off the hogs they test their dogs on doesn't show much of anything good to me about the type folks you associate with but does show me why you assume others do it. didn't say i know them personally...but i've seen it mentioned on several boards on penned hogs when testing young green dogs so they don't get killed... now whose assuming?? There aer actually a lot of people the don't use cut gear when they hunt....I've never hunted with anyone who put cut vests on their dogs so I wouldn't say most hunters do but I guess the people you know all use cut vests. Do they put cut vests on their dogs when they pen test them against those cutterless hogs? LOL! i didn't say all use specifically a cut vest...i said cut gear atleast a cut collar...there is alot of people that do use vests...obviously more than you know that use vests...outside of your circle...i see vests used all the time on various hogboards here & australia... heres one from your dogomans board from 12/06/09 by ladogos with a cut vest...OH!!but thats right its so rare to see dogs with vests... so you want to makes jokes now??...and your the one that didn't know whether they were talking about cutters or wetters You don't believe the dog can hunt because it's a CAS? You're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I once saw a 15 pound jack russel terrier bay up a 350 pound boar and make it sit on its ass....since then I won't go by what a dog can or can't do by dog breed alone. You think the photo was staged? I guess with the company you keep where that it apparently common it makes sense that you would think that way. good for you, i've seen pats & jagd's do that as well...company i keep??...you have no idea the company i keep...there you go again assuming...hypocrite... i was interested in knowing more about it...why wouldn't a person genuinely wonder about it when they see a cas on a hog...something wrong with giving an opinion these days...without getting arrested by the opinion police... it is a young hog but the perspective is alittle off...i've seen small hogs with big cutters as well...

Re: Why do CAS need to HUNT hog today when we have CATCH DOGS? Posted by snake on December 8, 2009, 7:03 pm, in reply to "Why do CAS need to HUNT hog today when we have CATCH DOGS?" i had questions JD is all...and honestly wanted to know more because i actually did find it very interesting...i was intrigued & wanted to know more of the background...but then you started going off on rants, yes?? then the opinion police come out for giving an opinion

Re: be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT Posted by Johnny fairplay on December 8, 2009, 7:26 pm, in reply to "be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT" I didn't mean to start all this crap between you and snake . I just wanted the details on the pic . LOL . Hey can you explain what you mean by "finishing prey drive" ? Everybody has different ideas of different drives so just want to be clear on what you mean by "finishing prey drive" . Thanks .

Obviously... Posted by Sara R on December 8, 2009, 7:30 pm, in reply to "Re: looks staged..." not assuming here but I'm going to say argueing with you is pointless...you seem to skip over points you wish to skip and play semantics just to keep the arguement going... In any case Amy's arguements are valid and I've seen plenty of hog hunting pictures on boards and it's about equal the ammount of dogs with vests and gear to the ammount with nothing so much as a protective collar... A dog the size of that in the photo posted would have no trouble with that size hog so why should he/she need the vest... who cares the context, dog has balls to grab the hog period...isn't that really the point of it all whether in a pen or not?

Re: be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT Posted by Sara R on December 8, 2009, 7:45 pm, in reply to "Re: be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT" Good question and I'm glad you asked the original one because I was curious too. I know nothing of the dumb stuff regarding finishing prey drive because I'm not into hunting myself but I do find it interesting so...finishing prey drive? Does that mean killing as opposed to chasing and grabbing maybe???? I'd go so far as to say that my CO would go ahead and take a rabbit to eat it all on her own I mean, I KNOW she would so...well anyway.

Re: be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT Posted by JD on December 8, 2009, 8:43 pm, in reply to "Re: be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT" I would be more than happy to expand but pups have me pooped weaning off mom and I cant get any sleep so more tomorrow. Some throw backs in CAS dogs of present come to sighthound or wolf or both in which the females hunt by sight and engage to grab shake snap and eat. They will kill and eat in field and then throw up food for the pups, digusting but happens every time I let out a b###h. Males seems to have different drives. They also track with sniffing and going ot ground to dig out anything they can find. Some Females have so much of this that they are not good lgds with chickens . More later nite

Re: looks staged... Posted by AmyB on December 8, 2009, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Re: looks staged..." LMAO!! Now I know who you are You are a frickin nut case LMAO!!! You don't know squat about hog hunting, you don't know squat about much of anything really You certainly like to think you do and try to act like it though. Seriously, you need to get out and actually do these things instead of just reading the internet and trying to act like you know something. You're an internet quarterback with a bad arm. FYI, ladogos is one hunter.....not "most" as you claimed. I never said it was "rare" to see vested dogs...you claimed that the picture was staged because the dog wasn't wearing cut gear and they all wear cut gear. You are talking crap and can't back it up so now you are getting all pissy with me because you aer once again being shown for a know-nothing wanna be LOL!! Lets see... "didn't say i know them personally"??? Actually, you did. People you know and others you heard from that cut or break off the cutters...what a crock! Now you are claiming you just read it on the internet....like all the rest of your (cough, cough, choke) vast knowledge! "i didn't say all use specifically a cut vest...i said cut gear atleast a cut collar...there is alot of people that do use vests...obviously more than you know that use vests...outside of your circle...i see vests used all the time on various hogboards here & australia..." LMFAO!!!! You keep right on reading the internet...I'll go get real life experences. And you DID say cutgear - no mention of cut collars separate. "you have no idea the company i keep" Yeah, actually I do but that is beside the point...you knew a staged photo based on what you learned from your friends and you know what they say about birds of a feather. "i was interested in knowing more about it...why wouldn't a person genuinely wonder about it when they see a cas on a hog...something wrong with giving an opinion these days...without getting arrested by the opinion police..." Bull crap!!! You trashed the photo as staged and laid into the dog breed like you actually knew what you were talking about. "it is a young hog but the perspective is alittle off...i've seen small hogs with big cutters as well... " Where? On the internet? You sure you weren't looking at staged photos? LMFAO!!!!!!!!! LOL You really are funny. Yes small hogs can have big cutters. You ASSumed from the start the cutters were cut off even though it was a small, young hog which told me you didn't know didly squat about hogs....and I was right. Of course, you don't know much about anything since you get all your information from the internet LOL!!! I wonder if JD can guess which Dogo drama nut case you are I'll give her 3 guesses and the first two don't count LOL!! Amy B

Re: Why do CAS need to HUNT hog today when we have CATCH DOGS? Posted by AmyB on December 8, 2009, 9:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Why do CAS need to HUNT hog today when we have CATCH DOGS?" This is the mode you go into when you get shown to be a know-knothing fraud....poor little drama queen is being attacked by everyone just for having an innocent opinion....don't these tactics ever get old for you? Seriously.....you pull this same act on message boards and e-mails again and again and again. It never works for you....why on earth do you keep making a complete ass out of yourself? Amy B

Prey vs finishing prey Posted by FoxFire farms on December 9, 2009, 7:47 am, in reply to "Re: be nice if u posted name it is a Central Asian dog females of working type HUNT" The reason I pointed this out is u r correct some have different definations of these terms and drives. But if I use prey they they confuse it with the a typical prey drive the ex herding breeds have and that they are very trainable. Which the CAS is clearly not, but this finishing drive is something not normally found in most LGDS breeds today. Most Great prys have been bred down from the aboriginal mountain parts to house dogs that are fed lay around and dont move much just lay with sheep and guard them by existing in the perimeter. But CAS and CO or Gampers and even Sars and Nagazi, and Koochee and ASD are more primitive and natural vs and made so they tend to act a bit different. And it takes many generations of pure bred like dog to like to reduce this natural ability to hunt kill and survive on their own. If u add breeding CAS into a kennel like enviroment and dont TEST for this, u can make a fatal mistake and put a dog with way too much drive into a working LGD home who may chase sheep to kill, or jump the fence and kill the neighbors collection of rabbits. What is real fatal is if u combine this high female trait with the defense drive of a old world lgd u get a dog that is unstable. In which movement activates the chase and bite thing and then close human contact puts them into defense. I got on of these from a breeder and the dog would flip out with any movement and scream behind the fence if even I moved and or her pack, she had no pack drive, no reliable defense drive, and would go for a defense from behind or side on ahuman vs front on. She was never bred .

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