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Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family Posted by Stefan on July 29, 2009, 10:15 am My choice is my Presa who stopped a intruder at 9 months no training in NYC. PS I saw this on board I do not have passcode too.  Post a Response

Re: Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family Posted by maddog on July 29, 2009, 9:27 pm, in reply to "Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family" Well a presa in a filed doing training may be showing a little "natural agression" and alot of "trained agression". Regardless, even though they don't suit my taste in dogs, in my experience, i would say FILA as far as strictly natural.  Post a Response

Look towards standards & original working job Posted by Jeannine De Palma on July 30, 2009, 10:16 am, in reply to "Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family" Territory and or flock guardians have in standard required distrust or aggression to strangers - hense naturally protective. ' The most aggression required to strangers is the Fila and CO Standard. Note we all know the Fila should be top on list based on us seeing the breed. However the standards depending on which one u read actrually call for the opposite from aggressive. I insisting on non aggressive Caucasian Ovcharka has the word Fierce in one standard and aggressive in others and other words- I doubt are perfectly translated . But put the dog in the Natrually protective list on TOp. After that you look towards- Dogs bred to guard TODAY that have not changed yet( changed guards are Rottie- Dobes-great pry etc)Bred down to soften temps and standards have changed. You can still find good working lines if you look hard enough , But they are trained to guard so be prepared to pay boo koo bucks for one of them. So I would list after Fila and CO. FilaSAo, Sar, CAS- BRT. CAS has active defense drive, distrust of strangers, must be amendable to handling. They are territory guardians that guard land sheep or people. Anything in their area, They are were the guardians of the nomads - no training needed. Other flock guards have aloof in standards. And truth is every time anyone brings this up. We are then lumped in with trained PP breeds. Some how we need to go to clubs for training. Which defeats the purpose of naturally protective dogs. Plus who is guarding the sheep or home while your "one dog is off doing trials" We teach our dogs NOT to bite since it is natural for them to do so at a young age. We teach our much bigger dogs than PP breeds to DROP what ever they have in their mouth. NOt to TUG or play games. NO games when you may want your huge LGD dog to drop a skunk in the dogs mouth or a bat that could have rabies. However testing for protection should be done to insure the dogs match up and you dont breed a high ADR dog to a HIGH and get dogs most can own. I have protection tested every breeding dog 1-10 x for protection of me. BITE WORK. Do I spend time posting pics and videos of the dog growling snarling at the camera. So my neighbors can find it and say SHIT look what I have next door? The few x I did put it up on my front page buyers complained they know what they have. And they dont need it on my front page when a neighbor googles he breed. End result for breeding for the in standard temperment is naturally protective dogs who passed the real test taking out the bad guys , driving off predators naturaly engagement. So look for breeders who breed for the protection end of the standard vs going the opposite. I prefer working them as as a pack of guards on a sheep horse farm. Plus I test them for every test in my area be it FCI tan- CGC- or ATTS. All of them TEST dogs reactions to things not normally found in alife of a working lGD. Note the Pres of he Sch club I used for 8 years died and my 3rd generation has not been tested. We are bringing out his helper Marcus when the weather cools to test the newbies. Link: Naturally protective 3 generations  Post a Response

Re: Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family Posted by Tracey on July 30, 2009, 7:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family" I think you would be hard pressed to find anything more naturally protective then my 2 older German Shepherds. They come from a line of serious, defensive, hard dogs, a mix of Schutzhund, KNPV and German Police dogs, the lines I like are not popular sport lines though, I am kind of an oddball that way, even with my Malinois I don't tend to go with sporty popular lines, I like a different sort of dog to work then the majority seem to. MY GSDs are not as reactive or impressive behind the fence as my CAS is but they are more confident and serious when in front of the man and they are actively aggressive(want to bite) where my CAS is more re- active(will bite when he feels he has no option). Both of the GSDs I know without a doubt that they can go through any sort of pressure without an issue. I love my CAS but I would be lying if I said he was better then my GSDs as an all around protection dog. If I had to pick one dog off my yard to take with me in a truly scary situation it would be one of the GSDs. Those who say SchH dogs don't or can't protect just haven't been looking in the right places If my CAS was as dominate/hard/aggressive as my GSDs I couldn't handle him, just too large a dog to have that sort of temperament so I am thrilled to pieces that he is so stable, sensitive yet can bite very, very hard when needed to. He is great at his job of property guard, he is always the first to alert, especially at night. No one thinks twice of coming up here with him standing there..I love the breed they are wired differently then my shepherds are and are a very good protection dog just not the first choice out, I'd probably pick Bo second after the shepherds.  Post a Response

Tracy- Hard line of GSD natural protective Posted by Jeannine De Palma on July 30, 2009, 7:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family" Are you coming next month to the link you sent me? Tried to call. Post some info about the breeder of those GSD so some can find them. Most of the GSDS in the SCh club are NOT defensive at all. So it would be nice to see something opposite.. Can this GSD line as function as a family pet? I have a police officer looking for a hard dog. But has kids. Now were GSDS like this in the begining? Or did we harden or soften them? I know we are too young to be around but I never did research the GSD as much as the Rottie. And thank god the CAS dont bite unless pushedo. GOd what issues we would have if they had the drive of a PP dog and the size issues that come with a CAS. UGH. No one I think will be a all rounder PP dog than the GSD or Mal. THe idea of what a dog should be in protection came first then the capt created the GSD, where the CAS came forth from a time when dogs needed to react ANd live as a family guardian. I like reactive cause I am like my dogs. i dont want to fight but if u start it I will finish it.  Post a Response

Hey Maddog Posted by ann on July 31, 2009, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Which breed has the best chance to be naturally protective of family" What are you a doctor of and where did you get your degree from? I saw your signature on another forum and thought I would ask. Thanks!  Post a Response

ann Posted by maddog on July 31, 2009, 3:53 pm, in reply to "Hey Maddog" Degree, masters, and doctorate in theology. My main thing in life is God and the ministry. My dad is a pastor of a large church and i am the youth leader, assistant pastor. All my degrees came from Three rivers seminary.I started college when i was 17. Thanks.  Post a Response

Re: Tracy- Hard line of GSD natural protective Posted by Tracey on August 7, 2009, 10:55 am, in reply to "Tracy- Hard line of GSD natural protective " About the GSD, right from the beginning there have been a wide variance of temperaments in the breed. It really depends on the person doing the breeding as to what direction they take in a breeding program. I personally take stability, aggression and hardness over trainability and "flash" from my dogs. I normally stick with the West German lines, some have a bit of DDR (East German) or Czech blood in there. Since my first GSD in 96 I have raised or trained 10 GSDs everything from German show(my first GSD) to a mix of bloodlines SchH, KNPV, ZVV, HGH..and the only way one can know what you are getting is live with and train the dog. Which is why we like to bring b###hes in for our males in hopes of having both peds and personalities match up. Going to outside studs is tough as a good trainer can hide a lot of flaws, and most people aren't going to let you know all the negatives about a dog. We have always brought in b###hes that first mesh pedigree wise(hasn't always worked) and then IF she matures into what we want then we think about breeding her. If we do go outside to a stud we know the dog and/or the owner personally. Obviously any German show(High)lines are to be avoided for real hardness. I like seeing Mink v Haus Wittfeld, Lacelles Eros, Wannaer Hohen, Pendal Bach, Lindenhalle (as a few examples, there are soooo many kennels/dogs I like) in my peds. There are still plenty of good GSDs being bred in Europe IMO. But the problem is lots of great pedigrees around, very few great dogs...The only way to know for sure is take a chance on a pedigree you like and work the dogs. We just did a breeding here 2 weeks ago between a Danish bred b###h bred to our male out of German imports. Both dogs are stable, hard, aggressive and defensive and raised in a house with kids prior to coming here, love their lines and love what they are bringing to this match up. Linebreeding on Mink(4-5). Expecting some good pups off this combo, keeping most if not all of the pups back so we can raise them up 6-12 mos to see what we are dealing with. Our first GSD litter born here and we have been working toward this a long time. Our males have been used outside of here and good feedback from their breedings so it is time for us to do it for ourself. Super excited. Bo is going to be our puppy raiser He is fantastic with young pups/dogs.  Post a Response

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We cannot control the evil tongues of others; but a good life enables us to disregard them. Cato the Elder (234 BC - 149 BC) Jeannine De Palma.