Posted by Karen on May 8, 2008, 4:14 pm, in reply to "i 'd like to further elaborate"
West Wind Dog Training

You can use color with certain things. For example, in what we call the English Cocker Spaniel, there is a higher incidence of Rage Syndrome in buffs (what some may call cream). Now, the genetics behind the color are not what causes the syndrome, but the gene that caused the buff on the E locus is recessive (EE - not buff, Ee - carrying, ee - buff) all buff dogs are genetically black or brown on another locus, but the recessive ee makes the dog look buff as opposed to black or brown. Now, according to some sources I researched years ago when confronted with a couple dogs I suspected were true rage syndrome and not just bad manners, I learned there was a large stud used a lot in England, he happened to be buff and had rage syndrome (genetics of which are not known). There is a higher incidence of rage syndrome in buff Cockers (mainly English Cockers wich teh term buff is not used in - they call it red and gold) due to this dog. Does being a buff mean a Cocker will have it? No. But knowing the background and what the dog goes back to is vital. I knew an Englich Cocker with Rage and he was a buff. Now, up until recently in the great history of cockers, Ameican and English types were shown as varieties of the same breed so there was interbreeding between the two. To further complicate things, the C locus determines if the ee with range in shade from red to pale cream. There are five variations on the C locus. But back to - sometimes you can use certain colors to get an idea regarding other issues. Others are very clear - white Dobes have a higher incidence of health issues. Blue Dobes are more prone to skin issues. Color related or something else and it just happens to be that it goes back to a dog of that color, being fully recessive, along with the issue being fully recessive... Paws for thought...

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Posted by Marie on May 8, 2008, 9:27 am, in reply to "i 'd like to further elaborate"
Mergenthaler Bulldogs

i mean i respect Marie's point about checking pedigrees, but if we dont know the dogs in the back of our pedigrees or where specific or dominant traits come from, what are we really checking for? Well, it is very difficult to say for sure or even see these dogs due to them being long gone by now. The only thing we can really rely on these days is the pedigrees and a few pictures of the past and present dogs, but we can most certainly see what combinations of lines has produces what. That is what I was referring to as we really need to look at the pedigree's. I may of miss read your post about coloring. I thought you were saying that you noticed flaws in dogs due to the coloring. I have noticed flaws or traits that come out when dogs are getting bred to closely with the same dogs over and over. Such as too much RicAli tends to have pity body type and splayed feet, but very athletic. Too much Walz's bred together tends to bring out a tighter pump handle tail at the end, but nice thight cat feet and nice heads. Too much of the OLD Valley View TENDED to bring out kinked tails, haven't seen any in a while, but has big bones and bully heads. Walz's Jake Walz's Sheena Them breed together produced these dogs. Sorry about the pictures but I wanted you to see their tails. Mergenthaler's Bella Thanks Carol for the picture. Mergenthaler's Hercules Mergenthaler's Wrinkles I have bred a few Walz's dogs that I have produced out of Sheena and Jake to a RicAli (Duffy) dog and have gotten great results. Here are a few. I feel these three lines have been very tightly bred and have noticed that they are consistent and dominant when bred to the right dogs. I have one of each of these specific lines of Leavitt's so my goal is to bring out the best traits in all the dogs. Again this is JMO and what I have experienced. Have a great day!! Life is to good to be bothered by ignorant people.

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Posted by MaryC on May 8, 2008, 9:01 am, in reply to "Re: what kind of genetic thing..."
Loyal Guard Kennels

So who was that photo you posted? I was privileged enough to get Rich's book collection and he had ALOT of books! I have been making my way through them slowly but surely... How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat? ~~ Pink Floyd

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Posted by chris v. (chris v) on May 7, 2008, 11:09 pm, in reply to "Re: what kind of genetic thing..."
Regency Bulldogs

i prefer the bully dogs as well. but not too bully. Mr. Leavitt put in a lot of work to breed out the bad physical traits common with english bulldogs. these faults can be bred in alot faster than what it takes to breed them out, so i do not feel it is wise to breed to one extreme or another. just my opinion. the dog with the spots photographs very well. i mean i am really not into the spots but i really like that dog. his proportion and structure look great. i dont know what your plans are with him, nor is it my business. but if you breed him i hope you do it with an opposite sex dog that will help you maintain his type. he's really nice. i understand what your saying about pits in the netherlands, its kinda like punishing a kid for having bad parents. if you guys keep breeding dogs like this, i may have to renew my passport and cross the pond to check 'em out. but i probably wouldnt get past the coffee shops in amsterdam -chris

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