For those of us in the East and much of the Midwest, grouse and woodcock are the only wild birds available. But I think that all of us can agree, "extreme range" in the woods is different from "extreme range" on the prairies. I have been to the Dakotas and while our HB SDs ran bigger than they did on the Ohio/PA circuit, they did not run like all age dogs that I have seen at Killdeer Plains. Try running a true all age dog at Beaver Valley or High Point. And don't bother to tell me what happened, I already know. For better or worse, we need a stylish dog that will handle and point box quail or we won't win. I don't know about you guys but I don't go to field trials to lose! If I need a certain type of dog to win, that's what I'll run. When I was judging, I preferred a big running dog that went to the right places and had perhaps one or two finds to a dog that seldom got off the path but ended up with five or six finds. At one HB SD trial that I judged, the owner of a five find dog told me that my first place dog was a run off and that his handler was lucky that birds stopped him. My response? "I know, that's the kind of dog I like!"