1250 SCALE MESSAGE BOARD: Re: proposed Frigate variants of LCS

Defining the mission is usually the first step, and in the instance of the LCS that defining was poorly done.

Yes, if you desire an ocean escort with a shallow draft I fear that will be a long wait until those desires are met.

Perhaps we don't need a high-low mix. Maybe what we really need is a high-medium-low mix, and such a mix does have its precedents, such as in the DD-DE-PG/PC solution of WWII.

In any event you define what you want to do, before you sharpen your pencil and set about designing what to do it with, That is the failure here, not the LCS.

I don't think they are worthless junk, but they are far from what they were supposed to be, at this time. That does not mean they cannot be modified and adapted to be more useful in the future.

--Previous Message--
: Well then we need to get back to the question,
: which is: what is the goal? Do we want
: inexpensive mass produced ocean escorts or a
: replacement for the current LCS program? If
: people are looking for a shallow draft
: vessel that can operate successfully as an
: ocean escort they are likely to be
: disappointed.
:
: But here's the thing: just because no one
: seems to be able to come up with something
: better than the current LCS's doesn't mean
: that the existing ones aren't worthless
: junk. It just means that the problem has yet
: to find a solution.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I didn't say there was anything wrong with a
: Burke (lite). What I said was that while
: being critical may be perfectly OK the words
: are basically meaningless, unless the critic
: can also offer the solution or possible
: solution to the problem.
:
: If a Burke (lite) will meet all the
: requirements of littoral operations, while
: being lethal, and survivable, at a cost that
: is affordable so that the required number
: may be built, and we have the shipyards to
: do it, by all means build a Burke (lite).
:
: On the other hand if a Burke (lite) does not
: meet all of those requirements, and in
: particular the requirement of affordability
: so that the numbers required is met, than
: you have to look for another alternative.
: Inevitably that alternative will be smaller,
: less capable, less survivable, and less
: multi mission adaptive.
:
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: What is the goal here? To build a ship
: that
: can do much of what a BURKE does, but for
: less cost? If so, then what's wrong with a
: BURKE lite?
:
: If the goal is completely different, then
: first we need to define that, before we can
: bulid a successor to the LCS. One obvious
: problem with the LCS is evidenced by its
: name: LITTORAL Combat Ship. Given the
: developing situation, we need ships capable
: of ocean combat, not ships most suited to
: fighting Somali pirates.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: OK fair enough.
:
: Considering that it is a requirement for
: 21st Century naval warfare to have a
: high-low mix of vessels, the Burke, and its
: eventual follow on being the high side, what
: would you suggest that the low side be in
: terms of capability, survivability, cost,
: and a place to build them (other than
: Alabama and Wisconsin - (both yards
: optimized for the construction of such
: vessels)?
:
: There has been a lot of ink spilled over the
: LCS program, and most of the critical
: comments directed toward them are valid (and
: probably correctible over time) but it seems
: to me that the critics offer no real
: solutions to the problem, low relative cost
: and high number required), or they just want
: to build a Burke (lite) and call it a
: frigate.
:
: I would welcome seeing your constructive
: solutions.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazingly unimaginative variants of the
: pathetic LCS by the two current LCS
: contractors.
:
: What is needed is a radically improved ship,
: designed from scratch. One that is actually
: mission capable, with weapons systems that
: work. Whoever marketed LCS as a ship where
: we could interchange an ASW kill package or
: a mine warfare ship or a worthwhile surface
: combatant in days (or ever) ought to hung
: from a yardarm. The need for a 40+ knot ship
: in ASW or MIW is puzzling.
:
: Otherwise, yeah, let's replicate the failed
: LCS, make a couple changes, do some new
: PowerPoint slides.....and call them
: frigates.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
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: https://news.usni.org/2017/05/03/navy-slowing-frigate-procurement-to-allow-careful-requirements-talks-contract-award-set-for-fy2020?utm_source=USNI+News&utm_campaign=4fd4dffd24-USNI_NEWS_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0dd4a1450b-4fd4dffd24-231517965&mc_cid=4fd4dffd24&mc_eid=98384d2ecc
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